Ending the Loop

[Pochatok]

Day 2 and 3 done. Still going well- stronger urges today, but simply thinking about it is a reminder that what I seek is love and compassion. Pornography never grants me those things.

The urges are the strongest when I seem to be evading the present- in the state of "waiting". Today, I caught my urges peaking as I was waiting for lunch hour to begin. Why..? I don't even eat during lunchtime- I operate on my own schedule.

Either way, any escapism desires are manifesting strongest in pornography these days- what I want to resort to, instead, is mindfulness- awareness, acceptance, and follow-through w/ the struggles and pains that drive my escapism.

[Pochatok]

Day 4 and 5 behind- excited to keep moving (on). 

Urges more significant today-  I am a bit exhausted, and yet am not providing myself space of rest.

I will continue to build the free world I want to live in. I can't stop, I don't want to escape and distract (again). If not now, when? 

[Pochatok]

Day 5 and 6 behind - excited to begin seeing a significant continuity here. 

Right now, with all that's going on around the world (and US in particular), it's been light and easy, keeping myself away from escapist tactics. Yes, I am stressed, but because of how different the source and quality of stress is, I'm dealing with it differently.

Simultaneously, I'm continuing to create habits that foster my spirituality.

Crucially, however, I am still not working towards my passions. And I want to, dearly.

[Pochatok]

Day 7 behind- a full week. Has not happened in a while, but I will keep this going. Proud of myself for changing so much.

Dealing w/ a lot of personal hardships, but keeping together w/ some good habits- picking my face less, no gaming, etc.. I do want to acknowledge that social media and emotional distress took the place. Emotional distress seems to be addictive- it's comforting to feel sad and powerless, to me. 

So, gotta keep true to my discipline- exercise, ice shower, journaling, and planning my day out. 

Most importantly, not forgetting that God (future me) is always by my side. 

[Pochatok]

Day 0 - a light, but still a relapse. It's all or nothing for this counter. However, this is not the sole measure of my growth. What matters is the change between the times the clock resets.

Been in a very difficult place emotionally this whole week, seem to be struggling a lot with  getting things done. Sleep deprivation due to work does not help much either, sadly.

But, I will continue to strive for my best. There is no excuse not to do that- I want myself to be well. I want myself to be happy. I can't get there through relapsing and escaping in other ways. I must continue to meet myself where I am. 

Be kind ❤️

[Pochatok]

Day 1 - not relapsing today. I definitely need to back up my commitment w/ some reading- so I will read what I am already reading, just more. Caught myself wanting to order a new book... but no- there is no point! I have gotten so many to read through, already.

Today, it is so important to take the time to re-learn focus. Last two weeks have been an increasing disarray, due to a variety of circumstances. Time to do better.

Po

Edited April 29 by Pochatok

[Pochatok]

Day 4. Still going well. My addiction now causes disgust, rather than complacency. glad to be here.

[wheatbiscuit]

8 hours ago, Pochatok said:

Day 4. Still going well. My addiction now causes disgust, rather than complacency. glad to be here.

I read once of a 'successful' mindset that we should consider ourselves as all the same (and with the same 24 hours per day). When I went to a theatre drama last weekend, I tried to imagine that I had no more unique energy than the actors and actresses, or vice versa. I scared myself for a bit then, thinking that they had to be taking drugs or something between their appearances on stage.

That's probably more wrong as it remains much more of a guess than the things I've read about pornographic actresses (and actors, perhaps) going through to produce what has been out there for anyone to use at a whim. I think of the seemingly mere 10-20% of my day that I feel really unified and benevolent towards everyone I come across compared to simply feeling 'switched on' or 'of use' all of the time - but rarely my concentrated self. Which of them is right? Maybe I've just forgotten in the just 1-2 weeks I've felt under the weather how to get through the day, and after 3 weeks without gaming again.

(Hey, Po, well done) 🫣

Edited May 3 by wheatbiscuit
grammar

[Pochatok]

21 hours ago, wheatbiscuit said:

I read once of a 'successful' mindset that we should consider ourselves as all the same (and with the same 24 hours per day). When I went to a theatre drama last weekend, I tried to imagine that I had no more unique energy than the actors and actresses, or vice versa. I scared myself for a bit then, thinking that they had to be taking drugs or something between their appearances on stage.

Imo, that is the myth of meritocracy, and quite plainly so. yes, we exist within the same temporality, but our privileges and abilities and experiences create differences that at times may be impassable. such a statement ignores disability, race, gender, and many other identity-based systems of separation and oppression.

yes, a lot of things are technically possible for you . but that does not necessarily mean you actually can do those things. we all need to look to our strengths, and continuously work towards personal and collective liberation, cuz that's the only way towards actually becoming more 'all the same'. 

❤️ 

[Pochatok]

22 hours ago, wheatbiscuit said:

ere 10-20% of my day that I feel really unified and benevolent towards everyone I come across compared to simply feeling 'switched on' or 'of use' all of the time

hey! imo, that's you simply being hard on yourself. people who appear at 100% simply don't criticize themselves. that's literally all it takes. it doesn't mean they're doing any better performance-wise. but they definitely appear although they are.

i've been in that 10-20% the whole evening today. it has sucked. but as soon as i wrote the statement above, i felt ignited to do the right thing again.

have you read 'courage to be disliked'? may be of help to you ❤️

[Pochatok]

Day 7.

urges present, but i persist b/c i remember who i want to be.

i want the world to be free, and i will not ever achieve that vision w/out liberating myself. so, no relapsing today, and tomorrow me will return to this commitment.

[wheatbiscuit]

On 5/4/2024 at 10:02 AM, Pochatok said:

have you read 'courage to be disliked'? may be of help to you ❤️

Found it today; it reads like inner dialogue, and while I do some of that alone (a recent post in my journal), it has already seemed to confirm the 'pay attention/take responsibility' for your world bit.

EDIT: The 'philosopher' tells the 'youth' he is wrong on page 102, after earlier telling him not to do that; instead to tell someone that their point is illogical, not the person themselves. I feel righteous indignation! 🥲

That's good, but I've right away thought of the other day I tried to calmly direct a bicycle-rider's attention to traffic as he crossed the road with my hands and eye contact, instead of yelling, "Hey, cyclist! Watch your right side!" He noticed, but almost too late. (Side note, I walked too brazenly in the rain last week and was surprised how quickly my pedestrian lights turned red while crossing, and earned a bike/car horn - nobody proceeded until I'd crossed though. :X)

When it's a seemingly small matter, people (even me) don't always appreciate those louder calls. But small things do matter in happiness. I remember when competitive gaming that every interaction was very important to me, and conversations I had kept me up for about an hour every night. It's hard to maintain that offline, when the default instinct for many (like me, again) is to relax. But ideally, I would also respond well again to demands that I focus, throughout the day.

If that road traffic situation had ended up going very badly, would the cyclist have died happy? - You know, because he was possibly feeling confident enough to take the odd risk. I mean, dang. lol

Godspeed Po 🙂 

Edited May 7 by wheatbiscuit
details

[Pochatok]

Brief update: day 9. writing this after some significant struggle- about 30mins lost to some escapism. not sure where it came from, not sure why i needed it. i am not sure what it is i am running from- and i want to find out. i'll sit through it next time it's around. i don't want to dissociate. this world is too precious, and nothing i can really take for granted.

[wheatbiscuit]

5 hours ago, Pochatok said:

Brief update: day 9. writing this after some significant struggle- about 30mins lost to some escapism. not sure where it came from, not sure why i needed it. i am not sure what it is i am running from- and i want to find out. i'll sit through it next time it's around. i don't want to dissociate. this world is too precious, and nothing i can really take for granted.

According to Adlerian psychology, it's just from interpersonal relationships, isn't it? Which one(s) do you think? 🫠

EDIT: Whilst that is almost exactly what I'd say to a friend (or comrade?) at moments of busy-mindedness (had they recommended me something to read that was changing their life positively and was half of the reason that I felt busy!), I'm sorry if that's too short or brief. This forum should have a more formal edge to it than instant-messaging or offline 'chit-chat'. 

9 days, wicked!

Edited May 8 by wheatbiscuit

[Ikar]

On 5/3/2024 at 3:54 AM, wheatbiscuit said:

I read once of a 'successful' mindset that we should consider ourselves as all the same (and with the same 24 hours per day). When I went to a theatre drama last weekend, I tried to imagine that I had no more unique energy than the actors and actresses, or vice versa. I scared myself for a bit then, thinking that they had to be taking drugs or something between their appearances on stage.

I guess people/actors enter a trance-like experience when they perform. Sure, they have some skills we don't have, but I also think they calibrate themselves towards the performance too. I think theatre actors are mainly interested in these states/benefits and that's why they do their jobs.

On 5/4/2024 at 1:59 AM, Pochatok said:

Imo, that is the myth of meritocracy, and quite plainly so. yes, we exist within the same temporality, but our privileges and abilities and experiences create differences that at times may be impassable. such a statement ignores disability, race, gender, and many other identity-based systems of separation and oppression.

yes, a lot of things are technically possible for you . but that does not necessarily mean you actually can do those things. we all need to look to our strengths, and continuously work towards personal and collective liberation, cuz that's the only way towards actually becoming more 'all the same'. 

I'm curious. How do you understand the word "meritocracy"? What is it in your eyes? From the way I understand it, good performers get a raise, get recognition/good feedback etc.

To link up to what I wrote above, let's say I want to visit a play in a classical theatre. I pay my time (and normally some money too) and I expect a certain level of performance from the actors. They don't need to be the best and do their best on that day, but the idea here is I can't "see through them" whether they mess something up. I think if the institution put together a bunch of amateurs with little experience/little finesse/little care, I'd have every right to be unhappy with their lack of skill. I'd prefer to watch a bunch of average professionals who know their business, likely who got to the theatre play based on merit and who worked their way up from being amateurs at first.

(Note I am not arguing whether some jobs should be paid more/less or whether being a CEO is more valuable than being a regular worker.)

[wheatbiscuit]

4 hours ago, Ikar said:

I guess people/actors enter a trance-like experience when they perform. Sure, they have some skills we don't have, but I also think they calibrate themselves towards the performance too. I think theatre actors are mainly interested in these states/benefits and that's why they do their jobs.

True, that's often how I got by with a long line of pizza orders ahead. 😛 I also wonder if Po should use this book he recommended to answer you! I'm only 2/3 finished reading it. (edit: p184-187, wow! - 'the courage to be disliked') 

Edited May 8 by wheatbiscuit
grammar

[Pochatok]

i'm still going well - no formal relapse. from time to time, negative exposure to remind myself why i quit- but i know what i want. porn is just unappealing at this point- it doesn't cover any needs, and my cravings, too, are now channeled elsewhere (talking to real people, yay). 

so, day 16ish. longest i've had in awhile. let's keep moving. 

--

personal reflection: been feeling down a lot. it takes a conscious effort of letting myself reflect and rest, but i don't always do those in the correct sequence- like now, when i really should clean up my space, journal about what's bugging me, and then get here. the reason this is my response to stress, i think, is b/c i've conditioned myself to go to GQ when i don't feel well. maybe it does help, but certainly, journaling should come first as the most steadfast and reliable way of moving through my feelings!

 

beyond that, exciting changes to my life coming to place- i'm quitting my job, moving a different city, and solidifying my long-term plans into concrete visions. a slow process, but i've learned that i'm not someone who can ever do it overnight. just persist, and i will get there.

[Pochatok]

not keeping days- i have been exposing myself to sexual media of sorts, but the relationship feels very different (just like w/ games, which I occasionally still play). i understand the unique niche of desire sexual media can fullfill, but also understand well how so much of it goes against my values. i think that how and why i access that media has shifted fundamentally (though i still need to do a lot of work to truly be free of impulsive actions and trauma-related decision making). 

cheers!

[Pochatok]

another few commitments I want to shift to, sensing some difficulty in other areas of my life:

- i'm spending more and more time watching TV (over 40 minutes today alone)
- i'm struggling w/ focusing for longer periods of time, escapist tendencies and small tasks capture my attention constantly.

with those two, my goals are...

- only watch TV when i have laid down all of today's work. let that escapism not prioritize my missions.
- get back to focus timers. learn to keep a posture for 20, 30, 60 minutes again. no work w/out a timer of some sort.

 

i don't want to prioritize escapism over efforts of making the world a better place. i pray for strength in changing the course of this frustrating habit.

[Pochatok]

it's been nearly a month!

i've quit my job, moved home (so lucky to have a family that can provide me space to live in, that respects my boundaries, that empowers me to be my best self). 

i've stopped watching tv, i've quit gaming (again- i play from time to time, but games that have no addictive/entertaining aspects, like 'minesweeper')

i'm still struggling w/ escapism of other sorts- simply having my mind wonder in times when i can be learning/making things. 

i'm still struggling w/ pornography- i've been experiencing a lot of stress due to big life changes, and i don't like that this is my way of coping. but, it's only so because i'm denying myself other things- like going on walks, exercising, meeting people. i need to set my priorities better!

with all of that, i'm building amibition- constantly countering thoughts of helplessness, of internalized limitations... and now, nearly a week after quitting my job, i need to let that blossom. none of this can wait another day. i must live to my fullest.

[Pochatok]

hi all,

wanted to provide another update since I'm struggling w/ gaming. 

didn't quit, unlike the last post suggests! only one game, and i play it once to twice per day, during moments where i feel tired mentally and want to re-energize myself. what I need to make a habit of is having different responses to this inner state: reading, writing, creating- so many better ways of addressing the mental fatigue.

gaming only leads me to shame, because i cannot moderate- i am someone who is committed to completing a task, and get addictions easily. terrible pairing! 

no more time wasted. it's too precious- adding up the gaming and the relief afterwards, i've lost over an hour of time. ugh, so much regret- let that fuel my passion to quit!!!

[Ikar]

6 hours ago, Pochatok said:

hi all,

wanted to provide another update since I'm struggling w/ gaming. 

didn't quit, unlike the last post suggests! only one game, and i play it once to twice per day, during moments where i feel tired mentally and want to re-energize myself. what I need to make a habit of is having different responses to this inner state: reading, writing, creating- so many better ways of addressing the mental fatigue.

gaming only leads me to shame, because i cannot moderate- i am someone who is committed to completing a task, and get addictions easily. terrible pairing! 

no more time wasted. it's too precious- adding up the gaming and the relief afterwards, i've lost over an hour of time. ugh, so much regret- let that fuel my passion to quit!!!

I hope you'll keep on building a life worth living! Then you won't need gaming at all and the habit naturally dies off as no longer relevant. Just like my porn habit; having control over myself is my main motivation.

[Celgost]

On 3/3/2024 at 2:04 AM, Pochatok said:

Appreciate your input, @Dark, @BooksandTrees, and @Ikar, I feel empowered and responsible ❤️ ❤️❤️ 

Unlike @Dark, I do not experience any significant drawback from not watching porn, but it still feels like a significant interference w/ my life, because I've educated myself plenty on how harmful the porn industry is, in countless ways. And, to watch porn is to be out of alignment w/ my values- I hate, hate with a passion sexualizing others, especially women. 

Perhaps, it is an issue of not having my life "together". I don't have the daily opportunity to love and connect w/ people in ways that are meaningful to me, and porn is my "don't know any better" coping mechanism. Except that I do- so many things have worked, historically to replace porn, from books to connecting w/ real people in different ways.

Porn does not interfere w/ external parts of my life- getting things done, on time. But, it greatly shatters my inner self- it impacts my sense of integrity, it makes me see bodies before seeing people, it causes me to look and act towards people (especially women) in ways that make them uncomfortable. And that's the last thing I want.

So, it is hard right now b/c I am not experiencing a loss of integrity- I don't sexualize others to a point where it truly frustrates me since I am mostly by myself, and am not around people who can be desirable/attractive. But this is a subversion: the more I resort to porn, the less I connect w/ my friends (tested countless times over).

 

 

 

 

I don't think porn is a cause, but a consequence of a less active lifestyle.

I've been using porn for years as some sort of escapism. Sometimes multiple times a day. But I've never been addicted like these guys who watch hours of porn PER DAY and have terabytes of libraries on their HDD. This is what you should be worried of.

Not the usual testosterone kick that comes and makes you horny. Because this, is just some sort of natural body response. 

On the topic of viewing women as objects, I don't also think porn makes you this way unless you really are a problematic consumer. This sounds a bit like feminist propaganda and trying to be more attractive to young women that also hold these views. And listen, on this topic, women mostly don't understand because they don't have testosterone like we do. No resent, it's just the way it is.

Funnily enough, there are studies out there showing that male to female trans experience a huge decrease in libido when taking hormone therapy. Reverse is also true for female to male. This tends to show that our hormones really have such a big role in these needs. It's not all, nevertheless, it's a big part of it. You shouldn't be ashamed of what signals your body gives to you. 

The problem here might be more inexperience. I remember before having my girlfriend how insecure I was around women. I've dabbled with the idea that porn was the problem, but in reality it was just me not having a girlfriend when I was younger that made me feel so insecure around them.

Now that I know people I like can want me, can desire me, can love me back, and that also they can't if they don't and that it's okay because there is plenty of "fish" anyway, I can speak to girls so easily. I don't see them as "just bodies", and I make most women comfortable because, well I'm comfortable having or not having a sexual relationship with them. The ambiguity doesn't bother me anymore. In fact, I've never been so successful with women now...

Also, the porn industry is so large, you can't really make that big of a generalization.

If you watch "amateur"/self-made models, which is basically most of what you would find today if you're consuming free porn anyway, then there is not really any abuse, mostly. You have the OnlyFans pimp thing nowadays, but it's mostly just financial arrangements.

For studios, this is different, but this is also a different business model and you would have to pay, anyway. Most girls don't do more than 3 videos anyway because the industry disgusts them. The ones who stay are conscious of everything, even the drugs and in a way like this lifestyle.

In the end, sexualizing others is not a big deal as well. What I mean is, we have bodies; we find some features attractive in some bodies. That's ok. There is nothing wrong with that. Where it's wrong is if you allow yourself to touch these bodies without consent/be creepy.

It just seems to me you're very sex ashamed. The problem is that denying your libido won't make you more powerful, more pure, more of a good person. Engaging with it fully won't also. Aim is not to become a sex maniac. But to have a healthy relationship with it.

Not be disgusted by it, not be obsessed with it.

Just accept it's a part of life and human relationships and that it's not actually a big deal.

I don't say you should watch porn, because I consider it as a waste of time anyways, and have better to do with my time most of the time. But unless you really watch hours every day, I wouldn't work actively on this as a problem worth solving. Priorities.

Edited June 25 by Celgost

[Ikar]

21 hours ago, Celgost said:

On the topic of viewing women as objects, I don't also think porn makes you this way unless you really are a problematic consumer.

I don't say you should watch porn, because I consider it as a waste of time anyways, and have better to do with my time most of the time. But unless you really watch hours every day, I wouldn't work actively on this as a problem worth solving. Priorities.

I think I am inclined to agree with you in the big picture view, but the main issue lies within the identification of oneself as a problematic consumer. Having a problem is a problem; it doesn't matter if it's imaginary or real. This self-identification got us here in the first place (and rightly so); many of us just had an unhealthy relationship with games, played for hours and turned our lives around. For me, it was definitely the right move to self-identify as an addict five years ago.

In my case, the problem I have with porn is that I am somewhat out of control when I do it. Maybe the problem is not that I am "out of control" (maybe better said spontaneous?) by itself, because maybe it's something I need to be from time to time. It also probably has some influence on my relationship with my girlfriend. But the really annoying part it is that I really don't know for sure. The anti-porn course I've been going through is designed exactly for the people who spend hours every day with terabytes of porn on their HDD. I can empathize with that, as I went through something similar five years ago with gaming. However, I'm really not in the place of "For start, think of three beneficial activities that can improve your life." anymore.

[Celgost]

6 hours ago, Ikar said:

I think I am inclined to agree with you in the big picture view, but the main issue lies within the identification of oneself as a problematic consumer. Having a problem is a problem; it doesn't matter if it's imaginary or real. This self-identification got us here in the first place (and rightly so); many of us just had an unhealthy relationship with games, played for hours and turned our lives around. For me, it was definitely the right move to self-identify as an addict five years ago.

In my case, the problem I have with porn is that I am somewhat out of control when I do it. Maybe the problem is not that I am "out of control" (maybe better said spontaneous?) by itself, because maybe it's something I need to be from time to time. It also probably has some influence on my relationship with my girlfriend. But the really annoying part it is that I really don't know for sure. The anti-porn course I've been going through is designed exactly for the people who spend hours every day with terabytes of porn on their HDD. I can empathize with that, as I went through something similar five years ago with gaming. However, I'm really not in the place of "For start, think of three beneficial activities that can improve your life." anymore.

 

 

Yeah, the thing is that becoming a problematic porn user is way harder than becoming a problematic gamer.

It's very common to see someone play for hours. Games are made to hook you on for hours.

But it's rare to see someone watch porn for hours. Videos are made to make you excited quickly and jizz fast.

There is a strong component of time, and energy spent in addictive behaviors. 

That's why I don't think it's that big of a problem than a lot of online communities make it to be. 

Because most people who try NoFap by example, just masturbate for 20 minutes a day at most. That's far from a problematic/addictive behaviour. 

It's normal and natural to masturbate, animals also do it. It actually decreases the risk of prostate cancer in humans... so you better wank it off from time to time!

I understand the problem of watching porn though, and that porn might decrease the quality of your sexual relationships by setting unrealistic expectations of pleasure achieved/hardcore fantasies.

But really, there are actions you can do besides stopping to watch porn to address this issue. Because this problem is more psychological than anything. 

If you are scared when you watch a scary movie, yes, you can stop watching scary movies altogether. But you can also rationalize and cut yourself from what you are watching to not be scared of them.

Why not do the same with porn? Thinking "this is not real, this is just a fantasy".

And be conscious that you don't have to act on fantasies. You can just let them in the "entertainment cubicle" that is porn. Wouldn't that be a more efficient use of time and mental resources? As well as letting you get some pleasure from time to time? 

Edited June 26 by Celgost