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Sowelu
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Yesterday I have uninstalled all games from the main computer. Let's see if and how it helps. In past it didn't. Maybe this time is the charm. 😄

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On 3/29/2022 at 8:07 AM, Sowelu said:

My problem is the "want" is not strong enough. It seems the "must" has worked in the past

I absolutely relate- this is how I initially got out of gaming. I knew there were things that I felt passionate about, but my "want" to procrastinate would be far larger than "want" for anything else, so I had to change it to a "must". After my detox, however, I was able to strengthen my "want" for being productive and doing things I love, and I was eventually able to completely rid of the "must" mindset, though it took me over a year.

Hope that you can continue to get more motivation as you continue the detox- have you thought of doing a more throurough dopamine detox, not just games?

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7 minutes ago, Pochatok said:

I absolutely relate- this is how I initially got out of gaming. I knew there were things that I felt passionate about, but my "want" to procrastinate would be far larger than "want" for anything else, so I had to change it to a "must". After my detox, however, I was able to strengthen my "want" for being productive and doing things I love, and I was eventually able to completely rid of the "must" mindset, though it took me over a year.

Hope that you can continue to get more motivation as you continue the detox- have you thought of doing a more throurough dopamine detox, not just games?

Thinking yes. Able to do? Not likely. If find that most of my days I get up early and came home totally exhausted. I usually have three evenings during the week when I don't have kids. During that time I should learn enough to pass exams at the end of the semester on my uni. I don't really have a designated free time such as: "Oh, it's Tuesday, I don't have any obligations, I can go out to {wherever}." It's more like trying to catch breath while desperately running between things on fire and trying to douse the biggest one right now. 😄

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Okay, you are talking time scarcity and this is important because it concerns everybody in what the media calls the developed world.

The drive is to increase the value of your time that is being taken from you in a non linear way. An office worker somewhere in a city like Paris can generate far more tax revenue and demand for goods and services from the intensive work he performs than the slaves or laborers who performed physically demanding work just two generations ago. Just think how many people are engaged in social security, other bureaucratic agencies performing work on that one office worker. This office worker can’t find the time to mentor his children anymore, and this function is now taken over by the television and internet. They teach their own values.

The drive is to make your time more expensive, generate super revenues for the system and create a culture of super consumption. The most amazing representation of this that I’ve witnessed is that those poor countries that are shipping food and commodities to developed countries are in fact subsidizing the unsustainable over consumption of the latter. There is so much credit in the west for over consuming, but in a sophisticated way it is actually provided by the poorer trading countries. They struggle to feed themselves.

The system now tells you cannot have a healthy relationship, because you’ve only have a bare minimum left for a shower and supper at the end of the day. The wife is trained by the system that material values are primary.

Your question is then, how can I create time abundance in this system? This is what I’m thinking about myself. I guess following the important goals on a regular daily basis, keeping that time for what really matters is what will bring me success.

Edited by Amphibian220
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3 hours ago, Amphibian220 said:

Okay, you are talking time scarcity and this is important because it concerns everybody in what the media calls the developed world.

The drive is to increase the value of your time that is being taken from you in a non linear way. An office worker somewhere in a city like Paris can generate far more tax revenue and demand for goods and services from the intensive work he performs than the slaves or laborers who performed physically demanding work just two generations ago. Just think how many people are engaged in social security, other bureaucratic agencies performing work on that one office worker. This office worker can’t find the time to mentor his children anymore, and this function is now taken over by the television and internet. They teach their own values.

The drive is to make your time more expensive, generate super revenues for the system and create a culture of super consumption. The most amazing representation of this that I’ve witnessed is that those poor countries that are shipping food and commodities to developed countries are in fact subsidizing the unsustainable over consumption of the latter. There is so much credit in the west for over consuming, but in a sophisticated way it is actually provided by the poorer trading countries. They struggle to feed themselves.

The system now tells you cannot have a healthy relationship, because you’ve only have a bare minimum left for a shower and supper at the end of the day. The wife is trained by the system that material values are primary.

Your question is then, how can I create time abundance in this system? This is what I’m thinking about myself. I guess following the important goals on a regular daily basis, keeping that time for what really matters is what will bring me success.

I can relate to the sentiment that the current world is on the hectic side, material wealth being strongly in the front.

I am definitely at fault here as I have enjoyed my life for too long and now I am trying to compress the three fundamentals (education, career and kids) into the same time frame. I am really starting to appreciate the natural life order where you generally tackle these things one at a time and preferably with somebody by your side. It's just easier. 😄

There is a bright side to all this. I have lived my life to full in the past, so I don't have an itch that I need to accomplish something (such as traveling somewhere or going to India for spiritual journey) and my current situation is more-or less a bonus. 😄 This adds to the peace of mind when tackling all this stress.

I will not deny the benefits of having a sorted life. Having a fulfilling hobby, healthy lifestyle, being able to live in a way that allows you to have a free conscience about how you live a whether that life causes suffering or freedom to the people around you and down the supply chain so to speak.

I also think you are right in the point that "following the important goals on a regular daily basis, keeping that time for what really matters is what will bring me success." is really the way to happiness. Too often we fall under the sway of public opinion and feel pressured to do what is expected by society or people around us. Sometimes it's hard to be ourselves, because we may be seen as rebels and "now doing the right things for our close ones" or whatever pressure is put on us. And the funny thing is if we persevere, we'll find a measure of success, such as happiness and ordered life and then the same people who told us we are doing it wrong ask us: How did you do it? It's about staying true to your values and persevering. From my own experience I can say you can't find happiness in following somebody else's values.

 

---------------------------

 

I have been game free today. It's past midnight here and I didn't turn on a game. There was a funny little moment when I came home, because when I dropped my things, walking by my computer desk, I realized I didn't turn the computer on, which was the thing I always did first when I came home. I realized, there is no need to turn it on (not right away anyway) since there is nothing for me to do with it. I have a short craving - a rather strong wave of nostalgia, fondly remembering the days of swtor PvP with bounty hunter. The satisfying sound of the rail shot. Might sound funny, but there is a whole cascade of emotions tied to that sound and an indistinct image. Luckily it washed over rather quickly, and then I didn't have time to think about it, as I had a really quick dinner (ordered two pizzas on my way home to pick it up on arrival - talk about healthy lifestyle 😄 ) before a team meeting regarding university project started. After that I was so exhausted that I just fell onto the bed and slept until almost midnight. Now I need to stay awake a little while longer to do some online exams for the uni and then I can close the day.

This is going to be my second day one here.

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Yesterday I didn't game.

Came home, rushed for online presentation and ended up in the evening. I was keen on diving further into statistics. It's infuriatingly frustrating. I found quite a lot of errors in the scripts provided by the school. I wrote them an angry letter speaking my mind about what I think about the level of attention and diligence they put into it. I wasn't nice at all. What keeps me going is the challenge I think. I have grown to like it. Not the subject itself - I still consider it mostly a useless waste of time. It's like a puzzle. A challenge to my intellect. A detective story. I think this was crucial to not gaming. Instead of playing a game I did something I enjoyed to some degree. I know I have to do it and the obligation drives me as well.

I had some some short rushes yesterday, but nothing major. I was able to brush it off. Funny thing is that sometimes I know how to brush these feeling off. And I it's easy then. Usually it's a phrase, or an image, or a feeling. But next day, when the urge comes, I can't seem to remember the thing that worked so well yesterday. Strange. Even when I try to write it down, I always misplace it. As if something didn't want me to remember. 😄 Probably the devil on my shoulder / subconsciousness. 😉

Today I am getting images of Project Gorgon game. No big obligations beyond school tonight. Problem.

 

I have noticed my gaming isn't so much compulsory on its own. Rather it's triggered when I have a felling I have free time / time to spare. When I work I am almost never daydreaming about playing. Sometimes I Google something or such, but nothing too serious. Another trigger is being bored or stressed. With stress I think the connection is that when I was basically mentally tortured in my youth by my aunts when I ran to PC they left me alone. So gaming kept me safe and away from the pain. It has provided me with the world to escape to. A world without pain. With free time, I suspect it's partly because on some level I believe that this might be the last time I have to play a game. Sort of last opportunity chance. I had this feeling for years and it kept me gaming. I'll just game today and quit tomorrow. Then tomorrow comes, I have nothing interesting to do so I game again. Just today, tomorrow, I'll quit. On and on.

Maybe it was a fear. Fear that once I stop playing, once I exit the shell, I'll have to see and deal with the fucked-up life. I had a gamer's dream kind of life. Gaming without restraint all day and night. Enough income to get the basic life stuff without having to work really (a few hour per month) and enough booze and cigs. Yet, something was missing. I might have tried to fill that hole with gaming. Definitely some family issues as I felt as unwanted and unappreciated. Same things most people go through I imagine. The point is on one hand I have a sort of sustainable nice fantasy life on the other the reality that sucked. I chose the blue pill.

Another factor is that I didn't really see a benefit of "growing up". I had considerable freedom in my life. From around 13 years I was basically free to run my life - of course within limits. Got my room, later my flat, I was required to go to school, attend some family stuff and be at home at certain hour, but the rest was mostly up to me. I started to earn money by that age as well. I had income comparable to average salary when I was 13-ish. So "growing up" didn't really bring any benefits to the table. Just obligations. So why try to "grow up"? I saw what it did to other people. Just more obligations with no benefits. I suppose growing up was more precious for other people as the options for them opened and they could have benefits they couldn't before. It's easier to accept more responsibilities when you connect them with more benefits. For me growing up was - and probably is - a definitive downgrade.

To this day, I find most people to be pretenders. Kids in adult's bodies. Posing, playing a game. But when things get real they always have some excuse why they didn't stand up to their obligations. Didn't stand up to the responsibility. I have been through some rough times as well (between endless gaming) and I learned to appreciate genuinity in people. Not trying to be haughty here, I let people live their lives as they see fit, knowing I have my share of imperfections. The thing is the "grown up" world is mostly just more things to do in a mostly fake world.

These are more musings, or open-ended-thoughts than any sort of real judgements. I acknowledge I might be wrong, but I don't care really. The purpose it to let out thought and look at them. Be they true or false. It help me clear my mind.

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Grown up life feels a “downgrade” to you because there are obligations and penalties imposed for going against the rules of the system. But isn’t it a necessary element of any community? The system has to react and to keep in you in check. I am thinking about breakthrough personalities in history that hacked the system. They shared something in common: they devised superior discipline, combined it with great vision and attacked from an angle that the system with all its actors absolutely couldn’t foresee.

I see that you feel an obligation to work more because you didn’t work “enough” on your goals in the past.

But if that is causing stress now, then how sustainable is it over a 3 month span, over a 1 year span? What if you try to look at ways you can bring down the pressure and sharpen the saw? 

So I don’t just want to be a cog of the system. Creating something great and of meaning always requires to challenge the system. This is why every measurable improvement in health, beneficial knowledge, communication skills, generosity and humbleness counts towards that chance.

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Yesterday I didn't game. I have reinstalled Stellaris. One friend posted me with updates that look really good. And another offered me free beers. And I felt I did enough work for that day.

I kind of wasted the late afternoon and the evening; didn't do anything productive.

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It's ok not to do anything that might be problematic for you. Rehab is often accompanied by feelings of emptiness and a loss of motivation. You will go through that stage and find your motivation again. Plan your day if you think it helps you.

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On 3/20/2022 at 4:43 AM, Sowelu said:

How can I introduce MUST into my not-gaming? A sword of Damocles. That something terrible would happen if I game.

Time, we never get that time back and for some who simply cannot effectively moderate gaming at all like me have other parts of our lives just fall apart or take a back seat .. things like meals, sleep, hygiene, health, work, family, etc everything.

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Friday was gameless, if I recall correctly. On Saturday, I gamed practically all day long and on Sunday nada. Today so far nothing despite being on homeoffice. Most of my time goes into either school or wasting.

 

Musings / rant part: 😄

I realized my whole behavior is hooked on being high on something. On having the high. I think everybody tries to do that in some way, but the problem is that the high has become the norm. I am thinking about calming the mind. Resisting various highs to get the excitement level back to normal. This is of course a problem. Because even when I quit gaming, the underlying habit stays. I might have cut off a head of the hydra, but the body remains. How to tackle this - if at all? Maybe not overthink it and just focus on this smaller, clearly defined goal. These broad thought constructs tend to slow progress down to crawl and then to complete stop. Kind of mud of effort.

What highs? The usual short term stuff we do for a quick high. Gaming, porn, social media, sugar(as in Coke, sweets etc), alcohol... Quick excitements with some reward. I think this is the reason why I loved PvP so much and never looked back to PvE. Much higher reward. I could play arenas all day long. Constant dopamine flow. Along with getting drunk along the way. Constant high with little rush dips. I wonder, when a man becomes satiated? Realizes he no longer wants to live like that? That the high is emptiness on itself and doesn't fill other holes? When does he say: "I have had enough, I want to move on". I am not even sure if quitting because of crumbling life counts in this case, because if things were to become good again, he might come back and drink of the same well again. It might be, that realizes that he wants good life more than this bliss.

I remember really hating my smoking back in the day. I smoked, I hated it but I couldn't stop. When I finally had the opportunity I clenched to it and it was a liberation. With gaming currently it's something I want to do but shouldn't because it prevents me doing other things. How does one come into that state of mind where he hates gaming (or other highs) and not doing them is a liberation, not a rejection?

I remember one story of a man who stopped smoking in a very uncommon way. And I think it's similar to what I describe here. He started smoking with a deep love. He cherished every second. And then he became satiated and realized he needed no more.

Perhaps there is no black-white truth here. Everybody needs a different approach. What works for one, doesn't work for another.

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Wednesday was gameless. Yesterday I felt I need to take my mind off things in rl. I played for a few hours. Until 2AM. Today no games yet. I'll see how it goes. On one hand I should study, but on the other I am quite fed up with it as it was very frustrating to progress with the school project today. A trivial task made nightmare because of extremely poor documentation. Weekend ahead will be all school in theory, but I find most lessons useless as they either go over what I have already seen / know, or they go over new stuff but with such high speed it's useless and I need to come back to it later on and learn it from different sources anyway. Not sure how I'll manage to successfully end this semester. Miracles I suppose.

Sometimes I think that once this pressure is over, I'll just come back to gaming, happily smiling and playing. I mean what will be left there to achieve?

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Hey Sowelu, what kind of sport was your favourite at school?

I found that just kicking a ball against a wall gives clears my head. These things are individual so it may take some time to discover your cool down activity.

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9 hours ago, Amphibian220 said:

Hey Sowelu, what kind of sport was your favourite at school?

I found that just kicking a ball against a wall gives clears my head. These things are individual so it may take some time to discover your cool down activity.

 

I used to like a lot of sports. Most notably soccer or basketball, or then I spent most of my free time on rollerblades or on a bike. Depending on where I was.

And then I had dips into matrial arts which I really liked. Wing-Chun and a self-defense variation on MMA were my most beloved. I looked up for MMA gyms a few days ago, but my old one seems to cease to exist during corona and there are no MMA clubs around. I think they had the same fate. Corona basically wiped out the sport industry in this regard. I was thinking about buying some sort of kicking bag, or a dummy, but since I am not exactly small (around 120 kilos now) I need something sturdy (think expensive) and room for that. I don't have enough space for inside right now and it was too cold outside to work out. Had a bike ride with the first sunny day here. ...but it's snowing right now. :DDD

Honestly, I don't know what kind of activity I should pick up. I would need something that I don't spend much time travelling to and from. I need something "usable", action oriented. So I love sports and martial arts, but I can't stand gym. Aikido was a letdown. Nice people, but utterly useless at actual defense. I tried Rowing Trainer but I saw zero benefit and it was boring. Last thing I am seriously considering is exercise bike and watching school classes while I "ride". 😄 A perfect mix. 😄

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Yesterday no gaming. Today I bought some beers and I think I'll play something.

I am still ill, I slept most of the day. School class that was supposed to take most of the afternoon was cancelled - the tutor didn't arrive. So a time-space vacuum ensued that calls for beers and gaming.

I tried to concentrate on school projects and/or work, but quite honestly... ...that's not where my heart currently lies.

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Yesterday I played until 4AM. Today nothing.

I have worked on school project most of the day. Also neglected classes because of it. Got into argument with my teammates when I said I feel I've made a large enough contribution to the project (40 hours) and I would like the load to be shared as we are six in the team. I think the main revenge for me speaking up will come in the next days. We'll see how it goes. Not gonna back up. (I am still very reasonable and polite about the whole thing)

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I kind of stopped counting when and for how long I played. It turns out I play intensively after a few days of not gaming, or gaming very little these days. I think it was one day gaming in the last four days and the rest was no gaming or an hour a day. I am at home with my kids, we are sick. Not anything serious, but we can't go visit places so we are stuck here. I could play all day long if I wanted to. I don't feel so most of the time.

Today i bought a game because I was very interested in it. Also I found out that not gaming had exactly zero benefit for getting the school things done, which is supposed to be the primary motivator for not gaming in the first place. I understand I need to differentiate between normal work week and Easter holidays, but it would still be nice to see some sort of reward for not gaming. "Oh, I didn't game so I had time to learn this topic." So far it seems I have mostly been hanging in limo while not gaming. (Okay, I admit I wasn't in the best of shapes, backache bad enough I couldn't stand and sometimes even lie, cough and sneezing was swapped for all kinds of stomach flu symptoms and two nights of fever and chills) All in all I feel I could have spent the last few days better.

 

P.S.: Thinking about what actually kept me gaming, I came up with a surprising answer: I think a big contributor is a friend on Facebook who occasionally sends me messages with gaming news. And since we have very similar taste in games it's a perfectly targeted advertisement. Exactly what I love from a person whom I trust. I will need to write him and explain to him that we need to cut connection. At least regarding games. I have done this with all gaming communities after I started the university. I owned the most popular PvP server for Elite Dangerous and another one that gathered gamers in my state. I passed the owner status and said my goodbyes.

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On 4/17/2022 at 11:52 PM, Sowelu said:

P.S.: Thinking about what actually kept me gaming, I came up with a surprising answer: I think a big contributor is a friend on Facebook who occasionally sends me messages with gaming news. And since we have very similar taste in games it's a perfectly targeted advertisement. Exactly what I love from a person whom I trust. I will need to write him and explain to him that we need to cut connection. At least regarding games. I have done this with all gaming communities after I started the university. I owned the most popular PvP server for Elite Dangerous and another one that gathered gamers in my state. I passed the owner status and said my goodbyes.

Good to see you realized that your friend can be a trigger that draws you into gaming. Asking him to stop sending gaming news might be the way to go. You dont need to cut the connection if it is important for you. You both can still be friends if he means something to you.

Good luck on your journey! 🙂

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44 minutes ago, nils said:

Good to see you realized that your friend can be a trigger that draws you into gaming. Asking him to stop sending gaming news might be the way to go. You dont need to cut the connection if it is important for you. You both can still be friends if he means something to you.

Good luck on your journey! 🙂

Thanks 😉


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Yesterday I played the new game. I think I have satiated the curiosity as I have had no desire to play it today. As a matter of fact I didn't really feel like playing anything. I slept a few hours after coming from home and then I watched Stargate Atlantis. Although it's not gaming and I really like it, it's another high my brain is driving on. As i wrote earlier, the problem is much wider than gaming. A tangled web of habits to keep the brain in permanent high. Didn't do anything productive until almost midnight. But it's a victory of sorts and I'll take it!

I did write the friend. He didn't reply. Quite often I am surprised by lack of courtesy of the people. If I were to receive an explanation I've sent him, I would have replied: "Yeah, sure, man. Keeping the fingers crossed for you! Good luck!" Not replying at all is kind of rude in my book. But then I notice quite a lot of people in this nation behave that way. Including not answering a completely normal question and just turning around and walking off. I should be gotten used to it by now.

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21 hours ago, Sowelu said:

I did write the friend. He didn't reply. Quite often I am surprised by lack of courtesy of the people. If I were to receive an explanation I've sent him, I would have replied: "Yeah, sure, man. Keeping the fingers crossed for you! Good luck!" Not replying at all is kind of rude in my book. But then I notice quite a lot of people in this nation behave that way. Including not answering a completely normal question and just turning around and walking off. I should be gotten used to it by now.

Or maybe he didnt find the time to write yet and therefore didnt answer immediately? But if he is just ignoring you now, he is not worth it in my opinion. Good nonetheless, that you have written him!

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  • 3 weeks later...
On 4/20/2022 at 10:22 PM, nils said:

Or maybe he didnt find the time to write yet and therefore didnt answer immediately? But if he is just ignoring you now, he is not worth it in my opinion. Good nonetheless, that you have written him!

Yeah, he didn't reply. I am not bothered by it. 😉

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