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@Julon thx but I just want to add one thing: It is not the end of the world to watch some youtube or a series. I think it is important how it makes you feel. There is a difference for me between watching a series I enjoyed and intended to watch and watching a video, just because the youtube algorithm recommended it. So keep in mind to also give you room to breath. 🙂

@Julon That is something, I can relate to. It was also something, I was struggling with during my online dating attempts - like what could I possibly talk about? I am just a gamer. And even when another girl would be a gamer as well, all we could talk about, was to say which kind of games we both liked and did not like. So yeah, sure your goal should be to find new interests and passions so that you have something to talk about AND something to give yourself and your life some meaning. The question is: What might that be? If it is just something that is dependent on the outside world, which you could only pursue within associations, clubs or maybe the gym? That might not be an option right now. So the best thing that you should do now, is to consider: What is it that I can do RIGHT NOW? Normally, our mind as well as our surroundings already give us indications, what we should or could do. We often think about our environment as us (the subject) and objects. But that is not true. It is more like us, the subject and tools. Everything has some kind of purpuse and value or is hindering us. This can already start with your environment, specifically your appartment. A pile of paper on your desk is not just a pile of paper, but it is talking to you: It can be a reminder that you are lazy right now or that there is still some work, you should do. Some dirt on the floor indicates that you should clean your room AND/OR that you are not a very clean person. And you obviously evaluate those things with good/bad categories. And those things then are proving something to you and your identity. People for instance don't get depressed, just because they don't have a very functioning social cycle. Some of them are also jobless, sleep all day, have no daily schedule and purposes or goals to attend. They also might have trouble to clean up their appartment. All those things increase the chaos in our head and can become very negative experiences for us. What I want to say is that there are many things, which you can start to focus on for now. A depression, I just use it as an example here, nothing more, is often so dangerous, because we are trying to make progress in one area of our life, but are pulled back by another "suffering" one. So, focusing on other things and optimizing them could not only give you some kind of positive feelings, but also create some momentum for the time after Corona to attend your social life. Again, focus on what you can do right now for the moment.

First of all, welcome to the forum. Just because I am pursuing a career in psychology does not mean that I should be the leading doctor in a surgery. ^^ I think that you should start with your own journal in the journal section. It can be very useful to write down the things, which are going through your mind. Also your wishes, dreams and desires. Overall, most of the successful members here are pursuing a positive psychology approach, where they don't just try to get rid of games, but instead are trying to optimize their lives more generally speaking. For instance, finding other things, which can give their lives some purpose and meaning, may it be working out, creative crafts or learning something new. I recommend that you focus on your identity: Who are you right now and who you want to become. Good luck with that. Everyone is very kind and open here and will be interested in what you have to say. 🙂

I am not a fan of dating apps anymore. I used to have a certain degree of success with one actual date, which was really a bit of a desaster. xD After that it was either women stopping to reply in the middle of the conversation or when some women wanted to meet, I kinda were not interested anymore, a bit shy and did what a person with social anxiety like me tends to do: Avoiding! Besides that, those apps are not really a positive thing. Sure, you can meet a person for a relationship. But first of all: If you suck with flirting in real life, why should it go better on tinder? Normally, at least people like me, are to shy to just go to a women and ask for a date. This is a part of a future identity, I want to turn into a reality for me. Tinder seems to be happy alternative to not having to go to actual events, were you can meet women, but I think it is a bad alternative. A really annoying thing on tinder is that first of all there is all this focus on outer appearance, which some people would say is normal and important, but it is only a part of the equation. Women also really care for feelings, emotions etc. They are not as visually focused as men are. But the most annoying thing on tinder is the rejection thing: No it seems to be ok, to match someone and then still consider the person not worthy of a reply. And even getting no reply for a while, even if you swiped quite a lot of them right just creates this bitter feeling of rejection. It hurts! And the post by @BooksandTrees seems to be absolutely on point, how to be successfull on tinder, but like he also said: You need teh perfect pictures and bio, otherwise you will get ignored or only some fatties with low self esteem will match you. Thats the reality. Jordan Peterson likes to talk about the dominance hierarchy and one part of this is the dating behavior: The 20 % most attractive males are chased by all the women, while the average guys chase all the women. I am not willing to play this game anymore. I think that I am not unattractive, but I don't want to be rated based on some lame online profile. It is fake! And isn't it some kind of addiction as well? Some people here surely have deleted tinder and a couple of weeks later it is back on, ready to go. They are not so different to games: They waste your time, because you could do something more meaningful, they make you feel bad otherwards and you are thinking about it, even if you are not using them. So from now on, they are in the games, porn and sugar category for me. ^^

The question I have: How is gaming interfering with your life. What kind of things do you feel are you missing, when you were gaming? Can you describe that?

Dayum that might be a problem. xD But if there are valuable things in that book, which you consider meaningful, don't hesitate to share them with us.

Gamification as the real threat? I always kinda knew that, but this is the biggest realization for me yet! Lately, I have seen many posts on the forum, especially from new people, whether they could do something, whether they could pursue some kind of game. They were not sure, if it is actually a game. I saw examples of card games or even chess. I personally always thought that it is all about those "addictive mechanisms" by those evil developers. So, when I have a piece of chess software on steam, it is addictive and falls into the gaming category, which we are trying to avoid. And I thought that playing chess in real life with real people is not considered to be a problem. If that is the case than I would have to say that monopoly is perfectly fine as a table top game, but once I put it on steam, add a leaderboard, an elo system and a shop to customize by queen with some awesome cloths, it becomes an addictive game, which I have to avoid? That does not add up. So this made me think. What is considered an addictive game? Because according to this logic, it is not about the content of the game at all, but rather the mechanisms themselves. Why not just call it "gamification disorder" then? But this is another issue: If I completely would remove the content of the game and the only things left would be the mechanics - leaderboard, elo-system etc. then this alone should create an addiction! And this is kinda the idea of "serious gaming". I participated in a course called "serious gaming" at the university a couple of months back. The idea is to use those game mechanisms to build games with a serious purpose, where they can be used for a actual useful thing, from education until saving the climate... "Serious gaming" is starting to become a thing lately. The gaming industry is so big that by now, they could actually organize the olympic games several times at once. But I am wondering: How many people of us are actually addicted to serious games? We are not! We are not addicted to those kinds of math games, where we train our brain in a playful way. So even if we would be addicted to those things, who would argue against that? Our parents would be proud for us to be little nerds, practicing our math skills. We would start to brag with our newly gathered geography skills due to the geography monopoly version type of thing, we played. So, what about the content of the game itself? Sure, the story of some RPG's are quite compelling. Combined with great game mechanics they can become addictive. But the story alone is not the addictive element either. If it would be, then just purely reading the story in a book would also be addictive. There would be no difference between playing the witcher three and reading the books! And there are many games, which have no story or "content" whatsover - consider candycrush or tetris. Overall, it is not the story, not the content, not the combination of the two and not our preferences, because we all became addicted to different things. People are addicted to games ranging from heartstone to league of legends, cigarettes, porn, stamps or sports. Kinda EVERYTHING! I was unable to solve this problem, until I read a blog post by Erin Hoffman. You can read it here: https://www.gamasutra.com/blogs/ErinHoffman/20090916/85505/Life_Addictive_Game_Mechanics_And_The_Truth_Hiding_In_Bejeweled.php There was one sentence, which is so great that I have to put it in here and make it visible, so that I can always remember it: "Addiction is not about what you DO, but what you DON'T DO because of the replacement of the addictive behavior." This solves the issue entirely. If neither, the game, the story, the mechanics or even the type of behavior itself can explain addiction, there has to be something else. Instead of looking at the action itself, Hoffman looks at the individual and what the individual is "supposed" to do. The reason, why gamification is not working as great in companies as well as in steam games, is because addiction cannot be applied for those things, which we are "supposed" to do. And if we love those things so much that we are "addictive" about them, no one calls it addiction. It will be called passion, inspiration, hard work, self control etc. We might argue that Albert Einstein was addicted to physics and Bill Gates to reading. But no psychologist ever attempted to help them get away from those things, because they kinda considered to things, they "supposedly have to do". So, what are we "supposed" to do? That is very much an ethical, individual and philosophical question, I am not interested in for now. But I know this: It is irrelevant, which kind of games you are playing, which kind of game mechanics they have or which story they offer. It is also irrelevant, which kind of addiction you suffer from, as long as it keeps you away from something, you want or have to do, ranging from university stuff to healthy behaviors. That is actually the point in time, where it becomes a problem. So, you can play candycrush, chess or card games as long as you prefer, but it they are interfering with your life and cause problems, you should start to ask yourself: What to do about that? The only thing that works, is to focus on SOMETHING else, which is not only fun and keeps you away from games, but also something that helps you to work towards, what you are "supposed" to do. Still, quite theoretical and not a one and done solution, but it points towards the importance to adopt new behaviors and indicates, why it is such a smart strategy by gamequitters to have a list of different behaviors to do INSTEAD of gaming, rather than to focus on blocking and not doing it at all. However, gamequitters should start to understand that counting the days of not gaming is completely useless - only as a matter of achievement, something you can show ourself that you are once again the master of your own ship. So, in that sense, maybe it actually has a purpose. Regardless, once I understood and applied my new behaviors, gaming became irrelevant. There was no difference between day one and day 90. Therefore, instead of counting your days, focus on, what you feel that you should do. And do it! And if that is not possible yet, do something which is similar. So lets apply this idea for real life examples: When I am addicted to junk food, what is the actual addiction? It is the fact that I put unhealthy food in my body? Sure, but the problem is not that there are some unhealthy things, which create an addiction cycle and overweight. Rather, it hinders me, to act in accordance, to what I am "supposed" to do - for instance to stay healthy, to stay fit. Why is that something, I am "supposed" to do? I will discuss this at another point. We kinda all know that it is something, we should do, even though the majority of people are not doing it, which then can be considered to be a problem in our society: People get fat, our health system suffers, people die because of it, they become unattractive etc and then feel depressed. There are many facets about that. But the end result is that I am doing something, which I should not do, because it makes it harder or impossible for me to do something else; something "better". Now, what can I do? I just do anything else, which is "better". Therefore, a little bit less sugar is better, a little bit more working out is better. According to James Clear, just going to the gym, working out for just 5 minutes and then go home is better than chilling on your couch and eating chips. He does not only consider this 5 minute approach from a perspective of better or worse behaviors, but also because we have to make it part of our identity and a regular behavior - a habit! Let's ignore the psychological perspective for a second and only focus on the theoretical perspective, what I should do. Let's apply it to the almighty porn example. I often thought that instead of watching porn, which takes away the "supposedly" right behavior of expressing my sexual behavior in a healthy way, whatever this means, that I should instead masturbate. Or have one night stands. Or have a relationship. I argued only from my perspective alone, but I hereby admit that doing "no fap" might also be ok. Not in terms of doing something sexually, but only in thriving towards your "supposed" behavior. For me, it might still be to do something sexual, for another person, it might be something completely different. Because clearly, this supposedly right behavior can vary from person to person. What, if my better half and I have a very "healthy" sex life and regularly watch porn together? Some couples do that. I actually once or twice did it in a previous relationship. I never told my ex- girlfriend back then, that I actually knew the porn actress, Lexi Belle of that DVD, we were watching. I was pretending that I never saw this person in my life, because I was already addicted to porn back then and did not want to admit it. XD Anyways, is porn still the problem now? Can I consider it "good" or supposedly right, if I am in a healthy relationship and it is just fun for us? According to the new model, only when it not interferes with my lifestyle in a way of hindering me from doing something meaningful, supposedly benefitial or "right" thing. Long story short, we can summarize it like that: Once something, what you are doing is causing a problem, which forces you to not doing something, which you want or should do than it is an addiction. This creates a new perspective for the discussion, whether playing chess or card games are considered part of the addiction, why we are here.

What is the title of that book? That is a killer statement pal. There is so much truth in that!

But I think that they still are. They are the sign that there is still something in games, which is attracting to you. They mean something for you. It is impossible to get away, when they mean something. Don't try to run away from your love. You will always go back. No need to count the days of emptiness, because they are a counter until you return to it. Recovery requires changes in lifestyle and behavior. I am not telling you to stop gaming. I am telling you to explore, what else is out there. I fell in love with my studies and working out. Of course there is something out there for you as well. Just keep trying. But with intention. Why do you want to learn html or python? I think a good reason is important. I could name you 5 to 10, why I am working out so much. It is not just to do something else. So really focus on doing something else and explore your new identity. I started this process, while I was still playing games. For almost eight months. So there is always a possibility that you are still in this situation, where not playing games is to hard, because you have not developed those alternatives, which are so strong that there really is no point in playing games. Do you understand, how I mean this? ^^

cool. I did not know that one before. I used programs for that purpose, but this one seems to be quite a good piece of software. This is such an interesting objective: When is it called "gaming". I think, ultimately, everyone should come up with his or her own conclusion. I for instance, have this definition: "A program, which has set mechanisms you have to follow and mechanisms, which are intended to keep you playing. In addition, the game itself is not the main objective, but the atmosphere, it creates." For instance, with that definition, I can not play rocket league, because things like elos, cosmetics, events or buttons to jump into the next match as fast as possible have this aim to keep you invested. The same with games like candy crush or basically most steam games. Just installing a steam account is something, which I consider "gaming". However, some browser "games" like skribbl for instance, do not fall into this category. They are just offering a platform to allow to paint something and other people have to guess. Sure, it is a game, but there are no developers behind, which have elos, tournements or whatever. Very occasionally, I play this with some friends. It is fun and than I don't do it for weeks or months. I am really more interested to laugh with some people, have a fun time, while doing something. I don't even care, whether I win or don't. Actually, I never do. ^^ So this is my personal definition. If I look at chess, it would fall into the same category like steam games: You have these competetive elements, to keep you hooked, you can quickly jump into the next game anytime and the game is the main objective. So... But what when you play a game of chess with a friend via skype? With a real board, which is right in front of you, while he or she also has a real wodden board on his or her desk? The only difference is the absence of a program and the elements to keep you hooked. However, it is still something different for me. But this is, where it gets tricky. Where is the line? Everyone has to make a decision in this regard. So instead, the goal should not be to decide based on some criteria, what makes it a game or not, but rather, what it does with you! Are you still in control? Can you stop it any second? Do you care about it so much that you actively think about it, while during other things? Are you thinking so much about doing it that you immedieately want to get back to it? You know those "addictive thoughts". I think, this might be a good starting point to make a decision.

Hey man, good to see you on the forum. And let me tell you that your situation is not that special like all the others. You can become addicted to every type of game. Some people are addicted to card games, I enjoyed Rocket League a lot, other people play candy crush. Also your reasons, why you want to quit, I can recognize myself, whethert it is the growing part of toxicity. My advice is to start your own journal in the journal section. You can use it to write down, whatever you feel is right. Maybe describe your day or your expectations. Has been very helpful for me, even though I am normally not the typical journal or diary guy. Besides that, hope to hear from you and gl!

Dating apps are something, I really had no success yet. I kinda had two interesting women, I talked to, but then the contact kinda got lost. The fact that I don't have a very big social life right now makes me feel bad sometimes. But I am glad that the dating thing is working great for you! And I just found that previous post, where you explained the forex thing. So now I know. xD

I don't know, whether it is a generalized depression. I think, before I slowly started to chance my life, I was pretty close and yeah sometimes it feels like it. I hope, over time all of that will go away together with the negative habits.

I guess that you are right. Why I am not trying some new approaches, I should also take this insight into consideration. Thanks. So true. But man, it really sucks!

I agree, it really is not healthy. I understand. I felt the same with language learning and painting. But while I gave those things up for the moment, you are still on 3d modeling. That means something. So don't force it, just let it come naturally to you.

That is a very strong realization. If we are dong something the way, we were gaming, I am not sure, we should even call it still hobby. But that is not important. The important part is this: Even very smart people need a break. They could maybe concentrate for 2 hours and really focus, but that they have to rest. 3d modeling is not easy to do, nothing you can do mindlessly next to other things. I would say doing that for 2 or 3 hours is more than awesome. Don't be too hard on yourself.

What is forex? I don't understand.

It is all part of the journey @Captain_Pilz You are experimenting. It seems like a failure, but this is exactely, like it is supposed to be. Think of the analogy of a bodybuilder. You just lifted a bit too much and fell on the ground. Now you can stand up again and put less weight on. Or you can cry and run out of the gym. Motivation is bullshit. Motivation is not reliable. What matters is the story, you tell yourself. Your identity, you develop. The end goal is not important. All what matters, is the here and now. There is something, what you said, which indicates that you have understood that perfectly. This one sentence is soooo big that it should be pinned everywhere: We could take this even a step further and say that it is not the skill, which matters, but the way towards the skill. It is not the focus on my abilitiy to lift very heavy, but my journey towards this ability - all those days of sweating in the gym. That is basically the main concept of James Clear and his atomic habits. This way of thinking made it easy for me to beat my procrastination habit as well as my sugar and gaming addictions. You are becoming more sophisticated. You develop during this process. Many ideas, I had at first, I let go. Believe me, you are on the right way. Everything is fine!!! There is no cycle, just a long and never ending journey. You will never reach the goal. Never! Once you reach it, it will be nice for a short moment, but it is more like a byproduct of the process itself. Because the moment, you reached it, you already want something else. You are growing man!

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hey my friend. Let me just tell you something: Don't be so hard on yourself. I am also not good in writing a journal every day. So actually, I don't do it. I just write in my journal, whenever I feel like it. For some people, it is very beneficial to collect their thoughts and what there observations of their behavior on a daily basis, for other people like you and me and can easily become hard work. Doesn't mean that you and I are weak. Also regarding relapses, many people also thing that they are a sign of weakness in the sense that we were to weak to resist our urges. This is also not true. I say that relapses are part of the process, they are INEVITABLE. I think therefore I have this unpopular belief that counting your days is a waste of energy. Especially resetting the counter everyday. Why does a relapse mean that you have to stop counting and start over? I think you might as well just continue, where you left. Those relapses are a thing, where you can learn something: Why did you relapse? What need is not fulfilled? Maybe something, you initially thought is working turned out to be a bad idea. Whatever it is, relapses are very important in that sense. Turn them into your friends. 🙂 So true. I have been following athlean X for months. Jeff really knows his shit. I am lucky enough to have dumbbells etc. at home, but I sometimes use his insights as well.

Same. And like I already mentioned - you said why we are struggling with it: We do no have a valuable alternative. Therefore, I don't think that for people like you and me, something like nofap in general is valuable. I for instance think that it is a lame pseudoscience without reason. For other people, it might be a thing of valuable. I can say that once I had a short one night stand for a couple of days and porn was completely not an option. After a while, it kinda came back, the porn habit that is. Not only because of the absence of sex. There were other reasons. One of them was that I kinda regretted the one night stand. Anyways, I think that instead of trying to resist and not to do it, we should focus on our mindset and identity towards porn as well as looking our for alternatives. Not focusing on the emptyness, but on the richness of something else. It worked for gaming. It should also work for this thing. We just need to find that thing.

Welcome to the forum. Good to have you here and good luck with your journey. 🙂

So here is the thing: They still see in you the gaming comerade. The person to have fun with via games. It seems that you don't like that. So tell them that this person (you, the gamer) is not existing anymore. You don't like games. You hate them. They are annoying. They are a waste of time. Well of course this also depends on your brothers' age. But I did something like that with almost everyone: My family, friends (even the non gamers) and of course my gaming friends. I would tell everyone, how my life has been deeply and negatively influenced by games and that I want to change that. Everyone understood. No one forced me to play. Of course those people are all a little bit older and were very understanding. I image that it could be harder at a younger age. But here is the main thing: While they might see you in some way - how do you see yourself? Do you see yourself as a gamer? Why would you be sorry to not play with them, if you are not a gamer? That is your goal right? This whole thing is not about trying to just not play. This is to become a non gamer. To act like a non gamer. To behave, eat and shit like a non gamer. You get the point. xD Eventually, you are turning into a whole different person with a new identity. This is bigger than some bullshit kids game. Become, whoever you want to become. I turned into a very muscular ripped gym rat and industrious student. If I think back at my past, I laugh about this loser.

I think that this is very important. Relapses do happen. And that is not so much about the end result of not playing for a particular amount of days as it is about the things, which you will learn on the way. Very important step! Not only because it makes it harder to go back, but also as a proof for yourself that you are not a gamer anymore. Because people without gaming accounts are not gamers. So now you can build that up and not only show yourself that you are not a gamer anymore, but also show yourself, who you are instead or more important: Who you want to become instead. Keep it up!

@BooksandTrees I think your two methods are a good description of something, of which I was aware of, but I never phrased that way. Makes a lot of sense. I think I have examples for both of them. Right now, I think psychology, what I studying as well as working out are huge passions. And I think, I always felt that if there is something, which I kinda have to force myself to do in order to see, if it is a passion, if was not really a passion. But then I also slowly build up my habit for working out and it was not always easy or something I enjoy. Probably once again has to do with our mindset, our identity and belief systems, but yeah, I guess your message is to just be patient and keep going. Will do so. Thanks!