WorkInProgress

RTS and MOBA were my main culprits. But everything on the Internet with a competitive factor can lure me in as it gives me a way to totally focus on the game instead of reality. This is the factor which decides it for me. I can also do this in a more limited way with Anime Binging.

It's hard to say. I had many gamer friends and still have some friends who game and no one of them seems to struggle with it as I do. They waste time on it sure. But not in such a harmful way then I do. But of course, that's only one data point. It depends on how the statistics are measured. I guess the statistics are created by asking people how they feel about their gaming habits. Everyone in denial of his problem won't show up there. If they do it by measuring the time spent on games its quite possible that they measured too much game addicts because it's quite possible to play a lot without harming yourself. In the end it doesn't matter. How many is not the right question. The right question is: Is gaming addiction a real thing? My opinion: Yes. It is a real problem for some people (me included). People with this problem should get access to help. This forum is one way to receive this help.

@Jason70 Congratulations on 6 game free weeks 🙂 It seems like you are in a very reflective period and are still doing stuff you need to do. That is how progress happens. Audiobooks are a nice alternative to YouTube for me. Maybe this would be an idea for low energy states? I listened to a lot of self-improvement, but lately I enjoy listening to fantasy books. Right now I am finishing a series I started reading as a teenager (wheel of time). It's quite enjoyable.

2021-03-30 I used Blocksite to block me off from YouTube and several porn sites, because they tend to trigger me. I also secured it with a random generated password and gave it to a friend of mine. Afterwards I deleted the password. If I delete the extension/App it sends a mail to him. This way he keeps me accountable. To be not too harsh to myself I unblocked hacker news. This is for me like a weak social media version. I want to use some work time to learn Linux/programming again and HN kept me interested in that. As an application admin and this counts as education on the job. That's way better than gaming. I also followed through shaving this morning and spent the evening working. It feels like I am coming back on track. But I am still anxious about time logging. Maybe I do it this tomorrow for the whole month in bulk. Oh and I need to start drawing this evening 🙂 Hope your doing well. Bye Bye.

@TheNewMe2.0 Thank you for the wishes and for Reading.

Almost everyone who played a lot before detoxing, experiences low Energy Level. That is most likely missing Dopamin (which motivates you to do stuff) after hyperstimulation. After a while this normalizes. A thing which helps a Bit Here is physical activity. A good measure I found is: If it makes me swet it counts😉. I also dreamed about gaming in Detail after quitting. I also awoke and felt shitty because I relapsed until I realized IT was a dream. This also went away After a few weeks. These Things pass. Maybe It helps a bit to know this. Best of Luck to you. Mario

@POGtrick No one here is judging you. I can still remember the days when I was at university and would play 9hours a day while my wife was at work, only to lie that I have studied. Most of us have a similar backstory (or otherwise they wouldn't search for a forum about game addiction). If you play that much and stop gaming there will be a void to be filled. This has its blessings (time for family, reduced time stress, easier to care for your self) and its downfalls (no "okay" way to escape bad feelings, boredom, identity loss). Don't stop if you are severely depressed (i.e. suicide thoughts). If that's the case the first step is to find a psychiatrist and then a therapist while keeping this band-aid of gaming until you are better. If that is not the case I would advise you to go for it and quit for the 90 detox days. They will seem long, but afterwards you can really reconsider if you were better off, as you still gamed. For me personally it made a world of difference (even if I had a relapse lately and restarted today my detox). Also try not to fall for the sunk cost fallacy. It doesn't matter how much time you spent in gaming. The decision against does not depend on how much you already gamed. It only matters if this is the right thing for you. Best wishes, Mario

2021-04-XX - Objective: Be my own Master Key Results Draw every week one picture with pencil and paper, photograph it with my phone and share it here on monday. 100% of my time logged must be truthful from now on. Shave my face Monday - Saturday and my head on Sundays

Summary Hey fellow game quitters. I relapsed last days on playing hearthstone. A lot of it. While everyone thinks I am working. Or being busy with my children. After so many years with (almost) no gaming. It is time to be realistic and take this last two weeks seriously. I blocked myself out of my blizzard account and am ready to start again. This time I will count the days and set my self goals for every month. I guess it will help that I have stopped gaming more than once in the past and know the drill. Rationalizations I would rationalize this in the following ways: I don't have a hobby which is as fun I need something to do when I have to walk with the sleeping baby in the wrap (because he won't sleep in his bed) I can't say I stopped gaming as long as I still continue to see myself as an ex-gamer who can't play even a bit because he is "addicted" And the most stupid one: "Only one more. Then I stop." 1 and 2 are true, but gaming proofs again not to be the solution, because it comes with to much other problems. 3 and 4 are just stupid ideas from my mind to rationalize my behavior. What harm is done? I lie again to my wife, I look at my phone, while I play with my older kid (and he understands that I am not with him then), I lie at work (let it look like I am very inefficient instead of gaming on their payroll), I lost my chance to have a fantastic start at this new job opportunity and am instead just surviving. What harm will be done if I don't stop? I will damage my relationships to my wife and my children. It will most likely lead to another, worse job. It will make me unhappy and destroy the bit of self-confidence I have.

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=26153331

Hey you. I just read your whole thread. It seems like you had an encouraging start and were reaping the benefits of the detox, but as soon as you relapsed you felt encouraged in your bad self perception.Am I hitting close the mark? Yes I can relate to feeling unfixable. Whilst I was still "studying" I played through whole days only to stand up to eat some bread or go to the toilett. Half an hour before my wife came home (who supported us both at that time) I panickily did some housework. This shit circle was sometimes better but it always ended back in this state. Oh yeah and in between games I used porn and felt bad about it. Everytime I went back to this state of living I felt like everything good I have done in the past counts like nothing and THATS what I am really are. A piece of shit. And shit stays shit. But right now after some years where I was able to quit lol, quit other games, finishing my masters degree, ldoing okay in my first job, getting married to that woman, getting my first kid, getting my second kid (half a year ago) and being able to care for my finally instead of being only cared for, I still feel sometimes like this if life gets hard and I go back to youtube/porn. But what I realised on the way is that you never stay the same. Every action you take changes you a little bit and in the end it is just a question of sticking it out and trying often enough to improve. So keep trying. Keep doing the hard stuff and the benefits will come. Its not a question of character its just a question of time. Also a recommendation for you which could help you if you struggle with your self image and your day to day survival (which I certainly did and still sometimes do). Listen to audiobooks while you do housework/busy work. I would start with "Atomic Habits". Its really relevant for someone trying to quit. Its short. And its well read and written with a lot of good information. Hope your keep doing well (gaming or not gaming). Regards Mario PS: Its really great that your dealing with your mental issues. This is so hard to do. Pat yourself on the back for doing this. Seriously.

Hey sounds like a good idea to invest time in python and learn about programming. Don't think too much about choosing different languages and just stick with it. If your able to develop games/apps in python you learned a lot which is easily translated to different programming languages. The first one is the hardest so python is a really good choice.

Hi @alvayuso, sounds you got things in control right now. On interesting thing I learned recently is that every perceived "negative" emotion has its on use. I.e. Anger -> Releases energy to change things, sadness -> helps to accept unchangeable things, fear -> helps you to get away from danger. The key is not to suppress them or run away from them (as I tend to do) but to realize your feeling them, feel them, and then just move on. Later on you can reflect if it was the right emotion for the job. These motions are only problematic if they are extreme or misguided. If you are angry on someone who died, it would be healthier to accept that this can't be changed but that you are really fucking sad that he/she is gone. This allows you to move on. How is that relevant for you? If you feel like you need to fix yourself first before you have any capability to fix someone from your family, you shouldn't be angry at them or yourself but sad that they are unable to change and that you don't have a working way to help them at the moment. I hope you had a nice Christmas and this year will be as successful as you hope 🙂 I ill most likely only check in here less frequently because my on journal doesn't give me the value I hoped and my first one did. So I I'll journal more in private and try to get my shit together on an organizational level first before I spent time here. I hope you do well with your detox. Just stay sure that you keep moving in the right direction (away from dope/games and other shitty replacements for real live). Then it doesn't matter how slow you go. Regards Mario

@alvayuso Regarding your friend: Evading to talk to him if you have this kind of relationship is a workable but not really satisfying solution. The first thing which popped to my mind as I read your description was: Tell him! Just talk with him about how you feel (while focusing on me messages). I. I feel like you are wounded if I am giving you advice and our roles kind of changed? Is this true? I really appreciate what you've done for me over the years so I would really hate it if our relationships would suffer only because I climb out of the shithole I came from. Or something else in the same vein. Such long lasting relationships are valuable and are worth it to be vulnerable and speak honestly about your thoughts like you did with me. About that simp thing: I actually wasn't very successful with women (never though woman could be sexually interested in me)and came into the scene of the pua forums, and learned a lot about me. But on th other hand I always found them too extreme. Basically many of them were going from She is a saint to all woman are whores and needs to be objectified. Basically from Angel to Object instead of just seeing them as normal human beeing like yourself. It still had a good influence on me because I became more aggressive with speaking to woman and more confident in my ability to be attractive to them. As I started to realize that more woman were interested in me as I thought possible I met my wife and actually never had sex with other woman then her. 😄 Shrug. No regrets there that I never developed in a "player". Sorry for the tangent but I wanted to explain where I am coming from. Because if you say woman in general aren't interested in electronics it actually implies that this is some kind of natural tendency. But in my opinion this is just cultural baggage (everyone saying woman can't do this, so they believe it). Even a lot of woman do talk like this and it annoys me, because this kind of language worsens the problem if my hypothesis about nurture over nature is correct. It seems like you have the nature over nurture hypothesis. So who is right? As long as you respect other persons (regardless of sex) this isn't to important for us individually. About your father: I understand how you can be disappointed in your parents. My mother and my father have a lot of behaviors, ways of living that I can't respect. I try to focus on the positive (because thats what I do naturally in persons). And because I value our relationships anyway for the good things they bring me and because I know that they are human and have their problems. I try to respect their whole beeing despite their (obvious) faults. This works fine for me socially, in a way that I can critique people from a state were they know I still value them despite their failures. But that this works for e doesn't mean that this way of thinking is good for you. Maybe it is healthy to just stay on a longer distance to him. Maybe the best thing is to not give a fuck. That's a totally valid option. In the end he is an adult and responisble for his choices and you can't do more then trying to help him. If he can't accept that help this isn't your responsibility. If this fact leads to a lot of bad feelings for you I would say, be honest with him and tell him this and then don't talk about it anymore if he doesn't ask for help. The main thing I realize as I type this out is that my advice to you ist his. Try to find a socially appropriate but still authentic way to tell people how you feel based on their behaviors and your past. People who are good for you will understand this and it will strengthen your relationships. People who are bad for you will not understand and it will drive them away. This is another benefit. Here is an article from one of my favorite authors which could be interesting to you in this context: https://markmanson.net/toxic-relationship-signs. Let me know if I am talking sense or if it just to late for this comment 😉 Have a good time. And congratulations on the two weeks. Thats a great start and a big improvement to your old way of living. Maybe this is a good time to look back about your diaries and your starting days and realiszing how your day-to-day life changed so far. Hear ya soon.

Hey @alvayuso, I missed our discussions a little bit (guess the responses of a real person give me a nice little boost). While I can empathise that if the novelty of a thing wears off after a few weeks it is exactly then when you should keep posting (even if it is only a few sentences) to keep the habit alive and keep yourself in check. From my experience as soon as I stopped posting, because I didn't feel like it things slip away. Even if these retrospectives feel a little repetetive or boring they are worth it (especially while you still newer to not gaming). But welp. I am really no good example of this 🙂 I only posted a lot here as I quit gaming because it became my replacing habit if I wanted to evade "real" work. It was interestingly still worth it so I would advise you to set you a fixed schedule to write in the journal and only allow yourself to change it in extreme cases and in longer intervals (maybe every 2weeks). This way you can be disciplined but still are able to reduce the time spent here if you don't get enough value from it. It sucks that your father has this problems. I am sorry to hear of it. This must be hard for you, especially if he isn't able to do anything against it so far. This sounds like a problem were rational arguments (you need to train!) most likely won't do anything, because the information status isn't the problem. I am sure he knows what he has to do. The problem are in these cases most of the time the underlying emotions. I don't know if you have the relationship to go on an emotional level with him here, but if you want to change behavior based on emotions you will need him to address this emotions and then guide him to find a way to overcome them. But you are able to give advice he is ready to hear you will need to give him the feeling that you understand him. Otherwise this won't do shit. I atleast don't give a shit about advices of people who seem not to understand me (however great the advice objectively is). (And yes I see the irony of giving a random person on the internet advice :D) To your seconde paragraph: Why did it piss you off so much? You sound a little bit wounded by this. I guess he has some other world view then you do. Either you try to understand his point of view or you ignore it, but either way you shouldn't be pissed off. These emotions are worth to investigate because they are the basis of your relationsships (not just to your friend).

Hello dear reader, I haven't posted here for a while. What happened in the last 2 weeks: I did successfully stop watching YouTube and also blocked LinkedIn\feed on my laptop and LinkedIn as a whole on my phone. Did get some more housework done Connected with friends on family over remote Didn't do Pomodoro sessions Did only two (really promising) applications but got for both an invitiation for a remote screening. So MAYBE I am min-maxing? Gone through some emotional stuff with my wife and was able to support her. Gone through 70% of "Moonwalking with Einstein" (Memorization stuff) which I enjoy After posting a bit with @alvayuso I decided to focus on habits and actually be accountable for them. Unfortunately just posting here isn't helping me here as much as other people. But still I want to do two things: Do one focus session with my notebook(soon my remarkable2 arrives (yay)) and my laptop every day (25 minutes). (Cue :work of the day is done (children are sleeping, household is done as far as I committed to it. Craving: Feel accomplishment for becoming better, Response. Set a Timer, Write what I want to work on down, Open Laptop, Go, 4. Strike through resolved tasks and note down informations/ideas/further steps to the tasks in the session. Write down the number of pomodoros I completed since today. Use Anki to memrize ped-system (memorization system for numbers). (Fun habit instead of browsing :D)

@alvayuso Glad you get some value out of my book recommondation. Yeah I wasn't to convinced on the premise of the book at start too (especially because I read another Habit book some years ago and couldn't take too much out of it). But I really like how he makes the stuff applicable and straight forward. Cold is maybe a bit to negative (implies of not beeing able to show positive emotions either). How do you like controlled/stoic? Priorization is a good point. I will focus on two habits. Focus (atleast 1 Pomodorro session at knowledge work tasks) and Memorization (Memorizing Names, Dates and Numbers with anki at least for 25minutes) each day. I think these are the most important right now for me.

Hey @alvayuso Thanks for asking. Right now I am "in between" jobs so I have more time and trying to end in a better state of myself after this period. That's why I blocked all feed media and youtube and trying to have less input in general and focus more on my relationships and good habits. The relationships part is working fine, the part with the good habits not so much. Havin two small kids is making time based routines hard and I am not very good in finding flexible "triggers" for habits or prioritizing myself over my family. So most of the time I am reacting and in the evening when both kids are sleeping, I am tired and not disciplined enough to do what's hard. But the relationships are right now the most important part for me (because with the young kids and work I got lonely in the last over the last year). So I think I am doing okay. It is great that the article made you think and reflect. I found the perspective kind of refreshing. It was more Zen and less American then most stuff I read the last days so it kind of stuck in my brain. And yeah the key lesson is to know what you want and how you feel so you can react in the best way for yourself. And not in a way society, past goals, misguided ambitions or similar things pressure you to act.) Congratz on day 5 of journaling and beeing gamefree. Maybe you should consider aiming for achievements a little less ambitious then never gaming again. Not because it is impossible but because its really not rewarding to follow such a goal. Maybe a good goal would be to wake up and not identify yourself not as a gamer anymore. If someone asks you what games you play you are then not thinking anymore: At the moment I am not playing anything, but I am not playing videogames. IN the same way a non smoker would say no thank you I don't smoke. tt's atleast my goal. And as I write this I realize that I still identify as an addicted gamer with his addiction under control. Not gaming isn't an ingrained value for me. It's more like a rational conclusion (If I game even a little bit my life goes to shit again and I don't want that, not I don't game because I value my time and other things are more important). That kinda sucks. Thanks for the dialog.

Hey @alvayuso, I just read an interesting long-form article / essay which let me think of you. https://longreads.com/2020/09/08/out-there-on-not-finishing/?utm_source=hackernewsletter&utm_medium=email&utm_term=longreads Btw. If you just edit your first postcover and over again its harder to follow up on you because we willalso have to remember what yourlast post was and the thread doesn't get pushed to the top. I don't mind but just some thi g you maybe didn't notice. The bebefit will be that the comments will be clearly separated from the diary, which is quite nice. Hope your doing good. Flirting isn't the wkrst time waster. Maybe it will be more important to yourlife to flirt with the right woman then writing you thesis. Regards Mario

@alvayuso About watching good/bad things. The main thing is that we need to try to separate our actions from our self-worth. Actions can be bad, and you shouldn't find excuses for your bad actions. Yourself should always feel worthy. Otherwise this becomes a self fulfilling prophecy. I.e.Bad action. -> I am bad -> im the kind of person who does bad things. This is a shitty circly for you mental health. With another evaluation of reality you don't have to fool yourself but still have a healthier response. This shit I have done is fucked up -> I realize that is fucked up because I have a moral compass and this isn't who I am -> I do less of the fuckedup stuff. To make the example more real I tell you a little story of a quite recent slip-off of mine: I had problems at work, So I went on youtube watching old WC3 games instead of working in working hours, I didn't told my wife. Inner monolog was: I am a Fuck-Up, thats as shitty as playing games. -> Led to me playing hearthstone in secret But then the other kind of thinking domineered: Im not that person anymore, I don't play games and hide it -> I deleted my account and told my wife -> started looking at gamequitters again -> Watch less youtube on work and faced my problems there. If you focus loose your self-worth you also loose your aspiration to be better. Focusing on the good things in your life makes it easier to fell self-worth.

@alvayuso Did you promise yourself not to game for the 90 days?If yes I think it is a relapse. If you promised not to play RL or any other online games or smth like this it isn't a relapse. What matters is taking yourself seriously. And not rationalizing yourself out of your promises. Otherwise you'll loose the most rewarding experience after the 90 days. The experience that you can promise your self a hard thing and stay true to this promise. If you actually committed to 90 days without games (whatever kind) then find another way to spend time with her (chat, watch stuff together, talk about other things, get drunk virtually whatever), and finish it after the detox. Its only three months. This shouldn't matter to her. So basically. Only you can answer this. But don't bullshit yourself 😉

@alvayuso My pleasure, I know how much these responses meant to me as I started to share here. It felt a little awkward at first, but real people caring helped a lot. About Peterson: I watched a few of his videos like 2 years ago and listened to his whole book. But he never really hit the mark for me. I guess its subjective. And I can relate to the missing father figure... About Games: I had some relapses in between but I think the max. time was a one or two weeks. My issue with games (or instant gratification in general) is that I use it to distract myself from negative feelings. If somethings is hard or boring or scary my habits are strong. I lately blocked youtube and catch me like 5 times a day (and I am not a lot at the computer these days) typing in youtube and hitting enter. I don't know you but your writing suggest to me that your problems are different. Like you focus too much on the negative feelings. Maybe you could benefit from a gratefulness practice, to focus more on whats good in your life. And what people are good in your life. In the end quality of life is proportional to the quality of relationships you have. So its great that you enjoyed playing chess with him.In my experience most people have interesting and admirable qualities which are worth to find. Maybe you can take some of the won time trying learning more of these qualities in your parents and your grandma. About Training: I think Body weight training is fine. At least thats what I did before I had my first son and it was really good for me. About finding your self: I think you are what you do on a consistent basis. And you can change what you do on a consistent basis. Not radically in one step, but all these little changes accumulate. So it isn't so much a question of finding yourself and more a question of building yourself. This takes time and constant effort. I think not gaming alone will give you some time to think and act in new ways. The most striking change, as I stopped gaming was that I felt like I could have original thoughts again instead of just consuming content. Sorry for that minddump. I hope there are some valuable tidbits in it. 😉 Regards Mario

@alvayuso Hey welcome to the forum and the detox. One activity I started enjoying more after I stopped gaming was listening to audiobooks (I would recommend "Atomic Habits" to any one quitting gaming, Its short (~3hr, insightful, pragmatic and stays at the scientific side of popular "self-help" books). It seems like you are pretty competitive and the games gave you a way to fulfill the feeling of high status in comparison to your peers. That isn't something bad but you should keep this in mind, because gaming is imho a bad habit which is widely successful in fulfilling underlying needs for status, novelty, excitement and social connection. But it is only successful in the short term. The connections based only on gaming are often shallow, the success in gaming doesn't translate into your life and the novelty wears off if you realize your days look all the same. So my thesis is that you have a high need for status. This means I would try out activities which have the potential to give you a feeling of high status with better side effects. Fitness training comes to mind here. It has the benefit of tracable success if you measure yourself, and raising your health and perceived status by others. If your interested in that but don't have experience I would recommend https://www.reddit.com/r/bodyweightfitness/wiki/minroutine to get the habit started and later (if you have the time) progress to https://www.reddit.com/r/bodyweightfitness/wiki/kb/recommended_routine. I personally am not really compettetive but try to get into it more for the psychological and health benefits. Still struggling to prioritize the time to do the minimal routine though. Other more social sports are also a great way to get new connections and to compete, with others. I enjoyed playing darts in a team with my wife and her brothers a lot I can relate to this endless grinding on one game (Dota2/Lol were my cuplrits) and the frustration, and feeling of missing life. As someone who went through the detox some years ago and still doesn't game I can say it is worth it even if it is hard some times. What ever you like or try, I wish you success at your detox!

Hey there, quitting LOL was one of my best decisions in the past. Even gaming other stuff was better then the endless loop of queuing,muting my team, playing, porn, queuing again. I was also able to stop gaming afterwards with the forum which improved my life quality a lot. I wish you best of luck. It's worth it. In my experience the main part is to be consitent writing here. This helps to distract you and keep yourself accountable. What are your plans so far? Are you doing the detox?

I spent only like 4 25minutes session on my job hunt because I needed to support my struggling wife and care for my two sons. And also because I am fucking tired. Well but on the good side, I good some recruiters asking for my availability and was able to finish on a good note on my old employer by saying everyone personal goodbye. I think most of them were positively surprised of that and I feel like a solid professional network is a good investment in my future. I am excited to look for software tester jobs (I worked so far under the title it-consultant and want to get away from project management and more into technical topics). This motivates me to keep things going. I also was able to stop myself from porn and YouTube trough the android app "App Block". It counts how often you tried to access the blocked side and this helped me to realize how often I navigated there without noticing. So far I wasn't tempted to delete the app and the reminder was enough. That's a great improvement to the past. But it helps that I don't have to work right know and feel like I am moving towards something better. Gaming/YouTube/Porn was for me always a way to escape or to get easy dopamine. Instant gratification. If I see a perspective its easier to not go for it. But it is surprisingly hard to not know what to do and feel bored. I did in this occasions read a book about software testing, made some chores in the apartment while listening to an audiobook or did nothing. I have to learn again how to be bored. I remember that I was fond of laying the grass and watching the sky in my youth. Or just dreaming while doing nothing on the couch. I seemed to lost that ability, since I use a smartphone regulary. Oh and I also stopped successfully my caffeine intake. 4 Days of headaches seemed to be enough. So what's next? I need to focus on the knowledge work habit and survive. It's that easy. Everything else (including workout/sweets/etc.) is secundary. Because this skill will enable me to be actually productive with my time at work and home. Something I never achieved before. If I have enough sessions beyond my belt (I think 100 is a good number) I can add other stuff. Right know I am proud that I am able to stay away from my worst habits and build a new important one. After I wrote here for accountability I will do some chores and try another focus session.