Opinions on Feminism

[AcupunctureFTW]

Most of the voices in media about feminism are female voices. I would like to hear from more men about this. Do you think they way feminism is being presented is fair? If not, what needs to change?

Women are receiving progressively more attention and support. Women's earnings, education, etc are all increasing. In contrast, men in their 20's have high unemployment rates, and declining education levels. Additionally, men in their teens and 20's are also experiencing an unprecedented trend of erectile dysfunction as well as other sexual dysfunctions.  Of course there is also video game addiction and pornography addiction. 

Feminism is not to be blamed, but the current disparity between the two sexes does suggest that men may not be receiving enough support. Do you agree or disagree?

Feminism (at least my brand of it-- equality and mutual respect between the two sexes) is necessary progress and benefits both men and women. However, attacks on both men and women have been mounted in the name of feminism as well. 

I am curious about your thoughts.

[Hmmge]

There's rising percentage of erectile dysfunctions? Damn ?

I would not say men are not receiving enough support, it's just that the support for men and women tends to be different in the society. For women, it's common to talk about feelings and struggles - whether it's in communities, magazines, friend circles or other media(think Oprah). This is something that is lacking in support for men - handling depression, sexuality problems, identity problems, relationships etc. On the other hand though, the vast majority of the 'self-help' community is male and provides advice for (mostly) young men. Its focus is generally more of a "buckle up and start hustling", but still there is a lot of value to be gained(think Gary Vee, Eliott Hulse, Tony Robbins). Perhaps both sexes would benefit from taking part in each other's communities. However, that is difficult to achieve since it's usually specific people that give advice, seminars, speeches, articles etc. These people know how to give advice to the group they're focusing on, but not the other way around.

 

[seriousjay]

Because women make such a big deal about equality, etc., and have been for quite some time, it's socially acceptable to think along those terms. However, whenever someone gains, another has to suffer. I do believe there has traditionally been a large inequality between men and women in many respects, and there still is. Some sort of balance must be achieved. Inevitably, this will mean that men will suffer.. which isn't necessarily bad. It's just the way it is.

I just hope the struggles of men don't get drowned out to the point of being a mockery. Both sexes face very real challenges and they must all be given due attention.

[AcupunctureFTW]

16 minutes ago, seriousjay said:

Because women make such a big deal about equality, etc., and have been for quite some time, it's socially acceptable to think along those terms. However, whenever someone gains, another has to suffer. I do believe there has traditionally been a large inequality between men and women in many respects, and there still is. Some sort of balance must be achieved. Inevitably, this will mean that men will suffer.. which isn't necessarily bad. It's just the way it is.

I just hope the struggles of men don't get drowned out to the point of being a mockery. Both sexes face very real challenges and they must all be given due attention.

Do you really believe men have to suffer though? I've always viewed feminism as women being recognized for rights, while maintaining mutual respect between the two sexes. 

If women have something like equal wages, do you think that it is bad for men? Or actually helpful, because within the family the man doesn't have to shoulder all the weight of earning? 

[seriousjay]

9 hours ago, AcupunctureFTW said:

Do you really believe men have to suffer though? I've always viewed feminism as women being recognized for rights, while maintaining mutual respect between the two sexes. 

If women have something like equal wages, do you think that it is bad for men? Or actually helpful, because within the family the man doesn't have to shoulder all the weight of earning? 

I don't think it's bad for men if women make equal money. As you say, the net effect at home doesn't change much. It would only really hurt single men.

Personally, the issues I'm far more concerned with are rights-based issues, like women being allowed to decide for themselves about their reproductive rights. The current crusade against abortion in the United States is one such example.

[seriousjay]

11 hours ago, JustTom said:

 

I don't see how single men would be hurt by women having higher wages. If anything, economics 101 tells me they would be in higher demand. But either way, when talking about the wage gap it is critical to keep in mind the difference between adjusted and unadjusted wage gap. Adjusted means it compares men and women with the same job positions respectively, sometimes even taking into account educational background and other factors. Adjusted wage gaps are usually cited to be around 1% in EU, which is quite different from what people usually argue about - the mean wage difference between men and women, which is 17% or more. This unadjusted wage gap statistic, however, holds no information about discrimination. 

If women across the board started making more money, and nothing else changed, then ultimately businesses would stand to lose profits. Don't you think those businesses would try to find a way to offset those increased costs? How do you suppose they'd do that if women were simply making more money?

Either cut costs (men losing jobs or getting paid less), or charge more for their product (which would affect men much more than women in this scenario).

[AcupunctureFTW]

17 hours ago, seriousjay said:

If women across the board started making more money, and nothing else changed, then ultimately businesses would stand to lose profits. Don't you think those businesses would try to find a way to offset those increased costs? How do you suppose they'd do that if women were simply making more money?

Either cut costs (men losing jobs or getting paid less), or charge more for their product (which would affect men much more than women in this scenario).

So you think men might lose jobs to women?

[seriousjay]

6 hours ago, AcupunctureFTW said:

So you think men might lose jobs to women?

Yes.

Maybe not immediately. I mean, I don't think anyone would fire a man simply for the sake of putting a woman in that position, but if job equality changes over time, then fewer men will be employed compared to women. Only way this doesn't happen is if job growth at least equals the rate at which people enter the workforce.

Edited September 30, 2018 by seriousjay

[AcupunctureFTW]

17 hours ago, seriousjay said:

Yes.

Maybe not immediately. I mean, I don't think anyone would fire a man simply for the sake of putting a woman in that position, but if job equality changes over time, then fewer men will be employed compared to women. Only way this doesn't happen is if job growth at least equals the rate at which people enter the workforce.

Thank you for sharing this. I have never heard this as a concern before and can see where you are coming from. 

Unfortunately if the current trajectory continues for another few decades, with women continuing to be more educated and employed than ever before, and men continuing to falter in those same regards, women as a group WILL be more competent. And therefore more hire-able. 

We are still very far away from that currently, but if the trend goes to such an extreme that is possibly the future. 

[seriousjay]

2 hours ago, AcupunctureFTW said:

Thank you for sharing this. I have never heard this as a concern before and can see where you are coming from. 

Unfortunately if the current trajectory continues for another few decades, with women continuing to be more educated and employed than ever before, and men continuing to falter in those same regards, women as a group WILL be more competent. And therefore more hire-able. 

We are still very far away from that currently, but if the trend goes to such an extreme that is possibly the future. 

Difficult to say what will happen. All we can really do is take care of ourselves.

[Average_Guy]

First of all, I love your username.  Acupuncture for the WIN!

I don't know much about the prior waves of feminism in history.  But as for the feminism of today (in America), I do not think it is productive for society.

First off, I don't believe feminism is pro woman today, It's pro progressive woman.  At all the womens marches in our country, conservative women have been repeatedly turned down for marching for things they believe in i.e. Pro life or supporting the current President.

It also seems like todays feminism is not for equal rights as much as it's for the degradation of males and the patriarchy.  Our country was built on the principles that all men/women are created equal.  People forget that men, mainly white, that have fought not only for the equality all ethnicities, but for the equal treatment of women in our country as well.  Not to mention that all these dudes that fought for those rights were masculine.  The new line of thought that says masculinity is toxic is just wrong.

But if you look at some of the most gender equal opportunistic countries in the world, like Sweden, women still naturally gravitate towards positions that require being a caretaker like nurses and men gravitate towards engineers.  

I think that men and women are equal, however, they have different different strengths and weaknesses which is why they have different roles in society.  Much like how a creative mind will be better at creative work and an analytical mind will be better with numbers.  Just my two cents.  I would love to hear what you think.

Edited February 17, 2019 by Average_Guy

[Rude]

If you're a woman and you exist, you receive piles of unwanted attention from thirsty dudes. Guys hit on you, they tell you they love your body, they wish you'd take more selfies, they describe what they would do to you, even if you express no interest in them at all. If you're ever raped or sexually harassed, maybe about half of the people you tell will believe you and treat it like the crime that it is. The other half will say you're making it up for attention or that because you put on makeup or a pretty dress that you deserved it.

In the United States, women weren't even allowed to vote until the 1920's, and that doesn't even account for the social pressure that kept women from showing up to the polls at all even after it was legalized. The country was founded in the mid 1700's, which means over 150 years of laws and legislation were enacted in this country before women were even allowed to participate in politics at all. If you consider that we are STILL debating on whether marijuana should be legalized or not, you might have a clue at how near-impossible it is to undo legislation after its been put into action.

Women are still perceived to be worse drivers, worse at math, less goal driven, less focused, and while some people criticize this wave of feminism in every other aspect, no one bats an eye at the feminist goal of a woman for being financially independent. Even then, the market of this economy is circulating around people who are good at almost everything women are perceived to be bad at. Women are more social, compassionate, nurturing, caring, and maternal, which makes them great moms and housewives in an economy that hardly puts any demand or monetary value on those particular skills at all. Meanwhile men are supposed to be the go-getters and breadwinners that have sex for sport, toying with women's emotions and promises of eternal love in the pursuit of a quick nut before impregnating them pre-marriage. Even after marriage, they're quick to give up on their relationship and file for divorce 50% of the time, leaving moms with majority custody of children, to work on their own, and to fight with their exes about paying child support and be reasonably distrusting of all men for the rest of their lives.

As a dude in his 20's I know we don't have it easy either. A lot of women deal with shitty dudes and if you're not one of them, I get it. I'm not calling you some piece of shit bigot. We're all trying our best. But in this wave of feminism, women can be allowed to have their time to shine. Just put your interests aside and listen to them for a while. It will make the world a better place for all of us.

Edited February 26, 2019 by Rude

[Hobedaga]

Personally I'm a proponent of egalitarianism. Feminism doesn't seem necessary

 to me these days and mostly it seems to be a cultural movement instead of a legislative one.