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Frigga Stiglitz

Brother is addicted to videogames. What do I do as a sister? (2nd post)

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Hi, it's been a while since I enter in the forum. However my issue is not gone, in fact it may be even worse than before. I live alone with my older brother and he is really hooked to online videogames. It has come to a point of him not doing his basic chores, sleep all day and game all night. Sharing the same space with so much negativity is reaally hard, since I have my own personal demons as well. fe. 

I don't know what to do. The case is it seems that I care more about him than he really does. I can't ocupy this position if he is not interested. At the same time he is already 30+ years old and this habit can really wreck his perspectives for life. I'm afraid it's too late or it becomes too late day by day. 

I sugested journals, sports, positive contents as podcasts and movies (by the way, love the appearance of the project on stefan molyneux channel, I follow him for a long time). Anyway, nothing seems to light a fire under his ass. 

What should I do? I try to live my days being as much productive as I can, organize my room (shut out to jordan peterson here) , etc, be the example of life that I desire him to follow. But it comes to a time of really affecting the enviroment to a point where I'm unmotivated for life too, y'know? 

Video game addiction is a real issue. Sadly it doesn't have as much research about it yet, but it can destroy someones life and time. 

Sugestions? 

Edited by Frigga Stiglitz
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Preserving yourself is top priority always. Without your own stability you cannot help others. Make sure you get that down.

Get him to do his basic chores of cleaning (this is part of self-preservance, improve your own environment). Make a cleaning plan as follows:

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Each time you cleaned, move the marker (like a magnet on a whiteboard or something) to the next week and person. It is of vital importance that it is clearly declared what needs to be cleaned and which weekdays (I suggest 3 consecutive weekdays) are allowed for cleaning, to avoid misunderstandings. Also clean the floor, vacuum+mop (forgot to put that in). Extend the plan as you see fit - it is not complete! Cleaning should take 1-2hours total.

Everytime your brother misses his cleaning period - tell him. But don't make any consequences for now, it will take some months - just move the marker. This is to psychologically teach him a rhythm. If he doesn't know how to clean - help him on his first few times and clean together (this is extremely important!!! HELP HIM CLEAN A COUPLE OF TIMES).

Try not to get angry with him, just treat him like an obstacle if you are pissed, but try to be kind as not to make him stubborn. Give him the feeling that he is welcome to give him the power to adapt. If you fight with him - he will shut down communication and never change. You need to make him feel OK with you if you can (I know this is hard).

 

Ask yourself how his behavior bothers you. You will need to find methods to get that out of your life. As I said - self-preservance is your top priority for now. If he games another year it doesn't matter, first you will need to get a grip and be a good idol. Create a stable environment for yourself and your brother, create routine.

 

You cannot change him directly, mind. You can only indirectly incite a desire inside him to quit. This desire can be initiated by keeping your own shit together. If you are leading a happy life - he will wonder why his own life is shit (this can take a LONG time though). So keep in mind: Self-preservance is key. Make him do the most basic shit to get the apartment working, worry about nothing else for now. Create a stable environment.

If you got that down, you can start handling different things.

Priorites are: Self-preservance, environment, harmony - in that order. You can add more later, but these are difficult to handle already.

 

Peace.

 

EDIT: Oh and yea, get yourself some wireless headphones and listen to music at home - or podcasts. At all times when leaving your room. It is an excellent method of establishing a healthy atmosphere for yourself.

Edited by destoroyah
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 Totally agree with destoroya. If you can help him build up new habits, like cleaning for example, that would be a great progress. Otherwise, you always have to look out for yourself first. You shall not be dragged down, even if it is hard to witness.

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Omg thank you so much for the answers. I've sit and talked about cleaning for a while and didn't seem to see much of a result. Let's see if this time I can be more patient for things to change. I easily quit because i think "meh whatever, I'm the younger one anyways, I'm not gonna bother being a maid of an adult" and just care about my room and try as much as i can to preserve mysfel as you said (podcasts help). 

Our family structure is really fragile so really we just have each other. What pisses me off is that I always had to mature waaay more than my age over time, always. And now again I have to set things straight when y'know, growing up by itself is not an easy task. I'm tired and feels it's not fair for me. I feel that something is taken away from me. 


It sucks because there is a lot involved and I just wanted that things worked so we could share the benefits as soon as we could. It's hard being patient when I'm seeing this happening for almost 7 years now. 

But anyway, everyone have problems, I just get overwhelmed from time to time. Your messages really helped and I apreciate that. Will keep up this post (or another one) updated with the progress. 
 

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Take it from someone that has put the time in getting their own older brother sober after a decade+ of battling alcoholism. YOU, need to let him fail, let his life become unmanageable. Move out. Take care of yourself and stop helping him. The only way his behavior and perspectives are going to change if he wants them to. That won't happen until he sees them as unmanageable and desires to do better. If you stick around managing him, you aren't helping, you are enabling and thus causing no reason for him to improve.

It ain't fun, and it doesn't always leave you with a positive relationship. But if you feel his problem has become that significant than the only thing to do is leave him to manage his own life.

Ask anyone, in any addiction recovery program. Doing what Destoroyah told you to do. Isn't getting him off video games, it's coping with being an enabler.  

 

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Let him have his own experience. He must have his own wake up call.

If you can be supportive without being dragged into his world, do it. He can't do it alone, and he will need your help when he wakes up for life, but only when he does it.

Meanwhile, be an example of what's possible outside the fantasy world that is gaming.

Best luck!

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Thanks for the answers. I had another conversation about cleaning because at least the apartment don't become a crazy mess with me inside. It's better than before, I managed to be more assertive about it. 

About having some distance, I kinda tried that (funny that I tried without reading this responses yet). Some days after that he had become angry with me, said we didn't seem to be brothers anymore, compared myself to some really fake assholes, implying that I wasn't being honest with him. It was ugly and an estressed day. Not pretty. But I was able to see how much being too much arround wasn't good. 

Fuck... This is hard.

I don't have any references, I feel so much overwhelmed and alone. I try to search about different perspectives and points of view but it just makes me confused. I guess it's part of growing up and maturity. It would be a way more lighther experience if I didn't had to deal with crazy. 

Life goes on. 


 

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I am sorry to hear that. But anger is a quite common reaction to withdrawal of any kind. If you are more distant, he feels that he is losing you and the only way to not lose you is by spending time with you, which he can't unless he stops gaming, which he doesn't want. So, frustration is quite normal, but it will pass and another feeling will take its place. The second one is often sadness or disappointment, but after all the stages of feelings we humans must go through when we fear losing somebody, there will be a good chance to talk about stuff. Trust me. All you can do is verbalize your needs and desires. If they can't be met even after talking about them, than all you can do is look out for yourself.

Another thing that came to my mind when reading your last post is that you do not really have somebody to share your thoughts with, right? In that case (or in any other case) I would recommend to open a thread in the journal section of this forum. Even if it is generally used by people journaling their detox, I believe you would benefit from writing down your thoughts and getting replies. People here do not only quit games, they get to know their lives. Thus, everybody experiences kind of similar adventures. Just think about it. You don't have to if you don't want to, but I am sure you would benefit from it. :)

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I have been going to therapy and it helps me a lot. Like I said our family structure is fragile and I don't have who to talk to really. Things aren't as bad as they were. Getting myself more distant was important. About the gaming and other problems he faces I'm not sure how much time I have with "not being as bad as they were." I'm conscious that this """"peace"""""  will not last much longer. But I have to protect myself first when the bomb explodes. His birthday is close and he will turn 33 soon. It's always a weird and depressing day for him and myself. Time is passing by fast and besides everything he is aware about his poor decisions. I will try the journal section, be more active in this forum. Thanks a lot. I'm glad that I have internet to conect with other people. It's a privilege, really. 

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On 12/28/2017 at 8:05 PM, Frigga Stiglitz said:

It's always a weird and depressing day for him and myself.

Unfulfilled expectations. Need for attention. All-devouring destructive maelstrom of self-sorrow. Useless practice. Cure? Abolish thinking. Birthdays just occur because the earth takes 365 days to rotate around the sun and not 366 or 666. That would be brutal. It is a mere coincidence of trajectory. Retarded. Time is linear not circular – though that is up for debate.

Celebrate tradition and an established practice of self-worship. Make him feel "special". Get him a cake and a present. Try being 20% nicer than normal (not too much though).

Mind: destoroyah might be strategically joking without using "emojis" to achieve a goal inside your head. He is generally, maybe even subconsciously intentionally, misunderstood and an eternal slave to his own self-proclaimed stigma.

Edited by destoroyah

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hi, nice to see responses here yet. i've started a new thread with journaling you can read here https://forum.gamequitters.com/index.php?/topic/5708-the-days-of-a-viewer/ . But it's nice to have this space for more general conversation. 

14 hours ago, destoroyah said:

Birthdays just occur because the earth takes 365 days to rotate around the sun and not 366 or 666. That would be brutal. It is a mere coincidence of trajectory.

i see he has a similar view than you. "its just another day whatever". but i don't really buy it. i don't think birthdays have to be about joy and generalized happines, but i do think it can be a stop-and-reflect about what you have done. even though you don't have to wait for 365 days to do so. the same goes for new years eve or similar, but the pretext is still there. not everyday is your birthday, make something nice of it, remember, share. it doesn't have to be self-worship and shallow pampering. but i don't see the point of try-hard-edgyness. then it becomes the day of proving to everyone how much you don't care about the day and promoting this self-pity and shallow whining. don't take it personal, it's the vision i have of his actions. 

 

14 hours ago, destoroyah said:

Time is linear not circular – though that is up for debate.

i think it's a mix of the two. depends of what we're talking about. i know there are some writings about this on E.J Goldy works (didn't read but-). you can make a possible case for each one of them. 

 

14 hours ago, destoroyah said:

Mind: destoroyah might be strategically joking without using "emojis" to achieve a goal inside your head. He is generally, maybe even subconsciously intentionally, misunderstood and an eternal slave to his own self-proclaimed stigma.

so you are playing sarcastic mind games with a stranger on the internet? this is hard. i can't see your facial expressions or your tone. maybe it would be helpful to understand your point if you used some emojis. 

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Eh, I hate it when people dissect my post. It's so exhausting and feels offensive.

 

Try taking your brother's standpoint on birthdays seriously. Maybe you're right - he might be doing it for just the attention or "edginess", but assuming anything like that is presumptuous. Try taking it as he states, treat him like his word has value (even if that value is low and idiotic).

As for my sarcasm, no I will not change. I will not use "emojis". I wrote that so you don't take birthdays, or me, so seriously. I was trying to help, kid.

 

Love & Peace

Edited by destoroyah

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it's curious how nothing matters, the earth just rotates, everyone is going to die anyway, so what's the point? but i am the one who has to take something seriously and care. 

the "something matter" action has to go both ways. life was hell for me because i cared without receiving anything in return. i apreciate your point anyways, it chalenges what i've been thinking somehow.  to love someone way more than they love them is to fill a gap you are not even allowed to fill in the first place.

it makes a difference if i say i learned how to quote someones previous post because you did that to mine first? i thought i was playing by the rules and not being rude and stuff.  

and i didn't asked for you to change. just pointed out what is helpful (not really, it was a joke hahahaha lmao:D:D). 

love & peace

Edited by Frigga Stiglitz
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KIDS!!

Yes, life is futile. But... you see... Uh... well... the last time I explained that shit got really wild, so... how about you read some book on that? My wisdom is inadequate to explain. Marcus Aurelius, Zhuangzhi and Lao Tse have proven good authors for me. Paul Coelho's "The alchemist" is also good. 

You are not the one who has to take everything seriously. That is a self-imposed dogma. Don't do that. Go wear a pajama for a couple of days in a row and relax.

7 minutes ago, Frigga Stiglitz said:

Life was hell for me because i cared without receiving anything in return.

Yes. The golden rule. What a beautiful lie. Fix yourself. Care for yourself - and then, when you have amounted riches (not only materialistic values here...) you can nourish the people around you. Many people fail at step one, because they start with the nourishing.

Yea I quoted you. I don't know. Maybe it is related to frequency, or I am sick in the brain. I am known to be a touchy person - I think. I don't care though, the flaw is not fundamental enough to engage fixing. I would just leave the forums for some ten days and come back when shit has cooled off.

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i will be in touch with your recomendations, but paulo coelho is a joke here in my country. he's known to be tacky. don't judge a book by its author?

i thought you were sugesting that. to try to take his word with value, even if it's a low value, even if i disagree strongly.

if you realy want to discuss, i would first have to understard your definition of nourishing. personally i think things would be different if i was an actual parent. but i'm "just" a younger sibling who happens to do more things than the parents themselves. don't see anything infantile about that, since you're calling me a kid frequently. 

you seem to be someone who measures the price and benefit of things, and do analyze your amounted riches/vices. 

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Actually I really liked Paulo Coelho. Maybe I was in a situation that made me blind to its tackiness. Back then it helped me in accepting my own heart, because I had been overriding it frequently. I had locked up too many emotions. Also - in accepting tackiness and ignoring public opinion can you start embracing yourself. Don't try to be "cool", or adhere public views, when on the journey to yourself.

Yes you should take your brothers word seriously - at least to the degree that he gets the respect that any human being deserves. Sure, you can prove him wrong and an idiot, but try to listen and not just "nod him off". That would be very poisonous for any relationship

In spotting weakness in others and being presumptuous can you conjure great strength instantly. This is very useful in some situations - but mind, it will turn you into a very lonely and hated person if you use this "cheat" longterm. True strength is not found in pursuing the light (running after public opinions), or embracing the darkness (spotting weakness in others), it is found by becoming the light yourself. How do you do that? If I knew the answer, I probably wouldn't be sitting here, but I'm sure reading some books can help.

Nourishing. By that I mean a lot. Giving attention. Giving praise. Giving time. Giving materialistic things. These are all good deeds, when you give them away - but it is very important to not give away more than you can.

Hm. As for cost/effectiveness calculations, I am not so sure. But any process in nature is very aware that resources are scarce, there is no room for uselessness. I am currently on the quest for fulfilling this natural order of things, by reading some Marcus Aurelius. I want to be a good leader someday, and leaders are constantly faced with difficult decisions where cost/effectiveness plays a very important role. The right decision is not always the happiest one.

Also mind, there's like three words: efficacy, effectiveness and efficiency. Whoa...

Edited by destoroyah

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My opinion: You can take words seriously when you can feel people are serious about what they say. If people are telling you the same stuff every day - and trust me, there are many people that literally whine about the same old topics on a daily basis without changing anything - how can you take them seriously? At a certain point, there is a reason why you stop caring. Because caring can become true hurt. I believe everybody knows a girl or a woman that constantly cries about how she only gets arseholes as partners and than picks up the next douche. You can, to a certain degree listen to these words and even give advice. But when this woman or girl in this example, does not even want to change, only uses you as a trashcan to get rid of some hurt, haul in some attention, it should be clear: She is not taking you seriously. She is not treating you with respect. She is not treating you like your words, your time, your effort, your emotions had value. Mind that this was just an example. It is not a typical female problem.
But my whole point here is that you cannot simply take everybody seriously. You have to decide whether it makes sense to you if you take somebody seriously or not. You can listen, yes. You can understand that everybody has his or her own problems and those problems are the biggest in the world for the suffering person. But you have to decide whether it makes sense to take words seriously or just not give a damn.

The same goes for the part about value. Yes, you should treat people like their words have value. Value to them. Other peoples words do not have to have any value to you. You can listen, but it is entirely okay to not attach any value to their words. I would rather say treat people like their words have value to them. Mind that something might be important to them. But you have to decide, just like above, whether their words are important to you or not. Some people are in fact simply trying to get attention. And if something is of value to you, like let's say "quitting games", than you will not trash somebody with the same words day by day. If a topic has value to you, you will try to deliver this topic with importance. You will not simply waste it by using the same phrases again and again until they are just empty words.*
You can only treat people like their words have value if they treat their own words like they had any value.

And the last thing: I don't believe a human being simply deserves respect. I think what you mean is in fact - again - value. Respect is something you earn through the consequences of your actions. You should not treat anybody like a "lower form of life". But respect is not something you should simply dish out. Also, the same formula like above applies: You can only respect a person if this person respects him- or herself. If he acts like something matters to him.

Which leads me to my last point: Sometimes it is very much necessary to show people what you think or feel about them. It is not simply spotting weaknesses, but it can be helpful to them. Sometimes, we as  people have trouble understanding our own interactions with others because we can only see our own point of view. Thus, other people must tackle us from time to time and tell us what they see when they look at us. We don't have to take this criticism as "right or wrong", but we can decide how helpful this insight is to us. I can only say, that in situations when people showed me my weaknesses or my wrong doings, I grew the most. Because I can either agree with them and thus I will see space to grow in myself, or I can disagree and strengthen my own view of myself. Or, most of the time, it is a little of both sides.

Balance is the key. Do not be afraid to offend people with your way of thinking, but don't simply run around offending people. You will know best what to do. Like I said in my first post here, you are supposed to look our for yourself first and if you find the energy, physical and mental to help others, you can decide to help them and how much you want to help.

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I would always respect my brother.

I would always value my brother.

And if he has an opinion which I disagree with, I would tell him that I disagree with it. I would not assume some thought in his mind and scheme, I am outspoken in everything with my siblings. Yes there are fights, but we always forgive one another. My siblings may always fall in my back - I would forgive them until I die. That might be a flaw.

Blood is the strongest bond.

Edited by destoroyah

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In my opinion, what you are describing is love. Pure and simple. Kids love their parents, parents love their kids. That is why you would always forgive them. Still, if you would always respect or value your brother will be tested during harsh times. It is easily said when it works. Not saying that you wouldn't, but "always" is a promise that has yet to be held. And sometimes loving people means it is important to let them feel the hurt. Even if it means not taking close ones seriously or stopping to care for them.

Also, there are many strong bonds. My grandpa was more attached to the people that were with him in the war than his own family. Many situations can weld people together. However, if Frigga would not value his brother, he would not be here and ask for support. He is doing it to actively help his brother. And even if blood is a strong bond, Frigga has to look out for himself and not be dragged down into the pit that is his brothers troubles.

Last but not least, it might just be me, but since you are outspoken, I shall be the same: I don't really find the way you approach Frigga useful. You are talking about paying people the respect they deserve, yet you call him Kid. I might misinterpret it, may be you were just sarcastic, but I found it to be sublime. The same goes for the sarcasm. I don't mind sarcasm, but instead of using sarcasm, it would be useful to express yourself in a way that does not require explanations. The moment you explain that you will not change and how some parts are meant, the moment you start talking about yourself in third person, you are making this conversation about you. You are drawing the attention to you. Don't get me wrong, I respect you for being here and for helping others, I just don't find your way of helping, in this thread, genuinely helpful, rather distracting, partly sublime and I think it is only fair to let you know. If somebody requires support, I believe we should place our own ego or special features aside.

Just my opinion. You are free to disagree, you are free to correct me if I misunderstood something. Again, I respect you for what you do, just felt it was necessary to express some criticism.

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This is about her brother, you are generalizing the situation. It is the love within family.

If you feel that I'm making this thread be about me, take a look in the mirror. You are the one talking about some girlfriend moaning about her life (completely offtopic). You are talking about your grandpa (completely offtopic). The stories you tell aren't even remotely connected to the subject. How will this help her (you even got the gender wrong, dude!) in confronting her brother?

The outspokenness I meant, was the outspokenness among siblings. Not with you. That is why I will hold my opinion of you to myself for now, as it has absolutely nothing to do with the thread. If I want to convey you a message expressing my personal opinion, I would send you one instead embarassing you publicly.

I called her "kid" because she seems to be in a dire situation in the need of stability. Unknowing how to handle it. The role of a kid can be very comforting, as it is free of responsibilities and guilt. Furthermore she's presumably a decade younger than me.

I was actually, more or less, at least trying to give her answers to the problems imposed and present stability.

As for my sarcasm - I used it in a single post to emotionally detach her from the importance of some stupid day in the calendar, as it seemed to me, that her taking it too seriously could be a problem.

 

Also writing "just my opinion" everywhere, doesn't solve anything. It's not a free ticket for misconduct... You are detaching yourself from the words you write (presumably because you know they lack quality).

 

Sheesh! The thread is now completely raped. I will now go play some videogames.

Edited by destoroyah

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To be entirely honest, the opposite is the case. I am not detaching myself from my words at all. I stand behind what I say. That is a mere assumption of you. I stated "just my opinion" not to gain a free ticket to say whatever I want to say, but to imply that I - and I stated it multiple times - could be wrong or could just be misunderstanding you. I was implying, that I know, I could be wrong. That is all. But you call it misconduct. Me stating my opinion, trying to add some criticism, trying to give you some insight of how you come across in my eyes is "misconduct" for you? Honestly, that only enhances my feeling that you are on a mild rampage in here.

The examples I brought up were, like the name says, examples. They are related to what I stated and for me, they were important to get a message through.
Calling her a kid can - and you can always disagree - come across sublime, instead of reinforcing her stability. I mean, do you really not see this? If she is in dire need of stability, do you really think that being called a kid strengthens her believe in herself to be able to get through this? To me, it only shows superiority, which is not helpful.

That I got her gender "wrong" shows only that I usually do not really care about the genders of people. Especially in this forum. And in this case, I still do not see why it matters. But like I said, I find you to be mildly aggressive and that is what I see as not very helpful in here. But instead of being able to process the input I tried to show you, you did what? "But you, ... but you, ... but you." You even pointed out that I was mistaken about the gender, which has nothing to do with what I stated. It only serves one simple goal:

" In spotting weakness in others and being presumptuous can you conjure great strength instantly. " That is exactly what I meant. I find you come across sublime, you preach something but as I see now, you just got extremely offended and defensive about my criticism. You make assumptions about what I meant with my words and tried to attack me wherever you can, even if it has nothing to do with anything. I tried to be diplomatic, respectful, but it seems to have failed. Happens. If you would offer me criticism, I can only hope I would take it and reflect on it. If you feel embarrassed because I approached you like I thought I should approach an adult, well that was not intended.

Anyways, if Frigga agrees, I would like to delete the latest chit chat we two had to clean up this thread. Otherwise, a new channel or moving to the journal area might be useful, since like you said, this thread is rather a mess now.

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ūohh what happened?

ok, first i don't mind the gender confusion, we are all behind avatars and nicknames here, it happens (actually i'm triggered *screecheeess*)

the "kid" thing was a bit off, honestly. it's not clear you've said with light intentions. it's not my type to be hurt by words on the internet or anything, personally. however they can make the dialogue difficult, even more when you mix some stuff in between with sarcasm. and well, it's a first time experience for me sharing so much deep and personal things on the internet. so it can be touchy to risk saying some things. but hey, i defend the idea we have to challenge ourselves and maybe stare at the dark a little bit to reinforce the good ideas we might already hold. a premise i try to have and apply is: people don't care about what they talk as much as you wished they cared. and that's ok, move on, filter it, loot the good gems and end of story. 

with that said i don't have to convince any one that i am a mature adult. and i dont need to have things ease out for me either. i'm taking all the slaps of life with steroids. 

i understand the anecdotes from both sides. they represent archetypes of experience. for instance i've had a friend who was the nice-guy-listener of a same-mistakes-different-douche girl. it's a cliche, but helps to demonstrate some instable relationships between people.  

about the relationship of destroyah with blood bonds, well, i disagree, and it's hard to do so. blood bonds can be something beautiful but sometimes it's enslavement to biology and in group preferences. i've felt physical pain from daring to have critical thinking about my family structure. 

i think what people mean about respect, generally speaking, is just courtesy from day to day life. i'm trying to have a more jb peterson approach when it comes to respect (but the opposite of that is not necessarily disrespecting or looking down on someone).

i hope i covered all the points. i really appreciate this conversation and really miss a bit of this in my daily life. thanks for sharing your thoughts. i'm not bothered by what this topic has become but, if you insist, i delete the posts even though i like them registered. 

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From reading your - I want to say "wise" - words, I feel that you are very mature. The fact alone that you bear with your brother, try to help him and go online to find resources and support shows a lot of your character and strengths. I love it.

Also, I agree on letting the debate stand registered if that is okay with you.

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