[Time to move on]

Yo! Just a quick entry to let you guys know that I'm doing better. Since I reintroduced myself to gaming I played 3 times. The first one was on my day off for a few hours. Second one was in the evening after I've done everything I've planned for a day, got bored after 30 minutes though and quit. And the last one was on Sunday with my study buddy, 40 minutes between evening study sessions. 

All I can say is that I am finally on the way of actually figuring out stuff. I am developing passion for learning and enjoying every moment in life. And it's never been so fun and easy. 

[What's the point of being interested in anything if all people are going to do is spread hate about it?]

Hey Taylor, welcome back.

Addressing your question in the title, why do you care so much about what random people on the Internet say about you? 

Like I play competitive Overwatch, people tell me "kys" on a daily basis and that never bothered me. Like you have to understand that gaming community is mostly angry teenagers who are saying all sorts of stuff because they feel anonymous and there are no consequences.

If you can't tolerate that behavior there are tons of other communities with mature decent people.

[Time to move on]

4 hours ago, Lobares2 said:

if I got it right you simply think there is no reason to not-game

Nah, I think that with my current mental state abstinence is actually damaging.

 

4 hours ago, Lobares2 said:

You could say then, if you now found ‚the solution‘ aka facing the real problems, why dont you face them while staying sober?

Facing real problems isn't a solution. Solution is actually solving them. I can't face this while being sober because it's just too much for me. I can't take it, it just broke me. I have to address it one at a time. When I quit it's just too overwhelming. I feel lost. With gaming I have a solid ground from where I can start. I want to feel like a "normal" person, someone who can start up a game and have some fun, instead of being an "addict" who fears games for the rest of the life. 

Today I played and nothing bad happened. It felt nice and I moved on.

[Time to move on]

5 hours ago, Lobares2 said:

My main point why I quit games: Its a necessity to quit them. If I dont quit I have 0 chance to change anything. Quitting gives me the CHANCE to improve my life. It just makes it possible. But without qutting its not even possible IMO, since you will game all day once again… An heroin addict cant shoot heroin once a week and do good in his life. He will start to shot it every day.

Heah this is a very reasonable point. But as I said before, I have been quitting for 3 years. Not only it didn’t get better, it got much worse. I want to try something else even if it’s stupid

[Time to move on]

5 hours ago, Lobares2 said:

Yea I think the same! People need to address the real problems. My opinion: You cant face the real problems while gaming/being an addict. Thats the Main reason why you should quit. Quit, to have the actual chance to change your life/face the real problems.

I was facing real problems for 150 days. Not only I felt awful, it kept getting worse and worse. As I said before, my mental condition damages me physically. If I’d continue my “recovery” I’d either go insane or kill myself. If you can deal with all your problems without any coping, than I’m happy for you, but I just can’t.

 

5 hours ago, Lobares2 said:

My question: Why did you even start to quit games, if apparently you could have faced the problems back then while playing?

I thought that all my problems in life were due to gaming and if I quit my life will get better. Unfortunately it is the opposite.

 

5 hours ago, Lobares2 said:

I think you feel shit, because you sre not chasing the goals properly, didnt change the environment. And you might need to chase them for a longer time.

What is the proper way to chase goals? My goal is becoming a programmer, so I studied all day every day. What would be the proper what then?

 

5 hours ago, Lobares2 said:

Sure, of course not huge boost, its equal to the amount you put in. Doing my sports isnt fun, but the results are.

I can’t relate to that. I don’t get any gratification after completing chores.

 

5 hours ago, Lobares2 said:

My opinion: you will not do anything to change your life as soon as you start gaming again. I think addicts are not able to moderate gaming. Thats why they are called addicts.

As I said before, depriving myself from gaming does nothing good to me. I want to try things I’ve never tried before - understand myself. I want to understand WHY I want to game and what I can do with it. Just quitting and saying no to your desires is not a proper solution, it is just damaging and wrong. I hated myself for gaming for years. It’s time to practice some self love. I want to go beyond gaming=bad paradigm, I want to go deeper into myself.

I know that gaming in moderation sounds very silly on this forum, but I have nothing left to lose. My life just can’t get worse at this point. If I were to choose between myself after 150 days without gaming or when I was gaming 12h a day, I’d choose the later.  
 

5 hours ago, Lobares2 said:

Dont get me wrong, if you getting upset because of my posts just don’t answer, I wont write again then. Dont want to give you bad vibes or anything, I really only answered because I thought it might help. Again, I am struggling myself a LOT. But restarting Lol would put me back in a place which is a LOT worser, thats why I gave you my opinion.

I’m sorry if my response seemed disrespectful, I am just so hurt that I can get it out on other people.

[Time to move on]

56 minutes ago, Lobares2 said:

So I thought I might share it once again, in fact I wrote it plenty of times here already and many expierienced the same as well, so I am not saying anything new here

I was thinking the same as you, so I can totally understand your point. But now I can see beyond that.

 

56 minutes ago, Lobares2 said:

Quitting the drug is a necessity but is not sufficient. You cant live a proper life as a gameaddict. Thats impossible, thats the definition of an addiction: not being able to stop things which have a negative impact on your life.

Have you ever wondered how people become addicts? Gaming Addicts Anonymous says that the Higher Power made them miserable for the rest of their lives and they are helpless and can’t be cured. Pretty convenient position, it takes all the responsibility from the person to an abstract 3rd party. And I think this is bullshit. And Cam’s position that “you have to stop and do something else for the rest of your life” is also incredibly stupid. Imagine a person who is very good in studies, has good friends, exercises and has a romantic partner. Would that person be interested in shooting heroine behind a dumpster? Doubt. What about playing video games for 10h a day? Doubt. 
 

Where was a case after the war in Vietnam, that 20% of US soldiers became addicted to heroine. It was known as the most addictive substance, that would make anyone an addict. So the public was shocked that so many addicts would return to the US. But what actually happened is that after their return, only 5% within those 20% has relapsed during the year. 
 

That leads to a conclusion that the environment plays a big role in your behavior. They were using heroine during the horrors of war, and once they came back home they didn’t need heroine anymore.

So my point is that I have to discover what is ACTUALLY wrong, instead of mimicking “successful” people as Cam suggests. I can study for 10 hours a day for the rest of my life, I can go outside everyday on long walks, but if I still feel like shit, then what’s the fucking point? 

1 hour ago, Lobares2 said:

You cant assume quitting bad stuff will put you on the same level as people who always do productive shit. There is still a huge gap between those two people. The reason why people relapse is because its an addiction. Its the definition

You assume that the person is fucked up because he is a gaming addict. But what if he is a gaming addict because he is fucked up? You blame all the misery on gaming, but what if this misery led to gaming?

 

1 hour ago, Lobares2 said:

But you ask the question: for what? Well yea thats the right question, if you just studied for no reason just because you want to ‚know math‘ well thats fcking pointless.

I have to know math in order to be a good programmer, it’s a skill I need, but it’s not my main goal or something I enjoy very much.

 

1 hour ago, Lobares2 said:

If you dont get gratification once you hit your goals, those goals were not the right ones by definition.

Do you get gratification after brushing your teeth? If you don’t, then brushing your teeth was not the right goal by definition. 

 

1 hour ago, Lobares2 said:

But you cant address the real issue if you binge game 24/7. Like I said, stop the addiction is the necessity.

I didn’t say that I will binge game 24/7. But I will play when I want to.

 

You think you know better than me, you give all these advices. But what if you just stop for a second and think about it? What if you are actually wrong? How many times have you reached your goals after quitting games? 
 

When I read your journal the only impression I get is that you are fucking struggling man. You say that you will do better tomorrow, but that’s rarely the case. You are going in circles. What if you are actually missing something important that makes your life much more difficult? What makes your goals harder to reach. 

And this isn’t gaming.

[Time to move on]

Day 150 without games.

I've felt quite uneasy during the past few months, but this week my anxiety is so severe that I can't take it any longer. It is to the point that I feel physically sick. As my therapist has said, my negative feelings and emotions have connection to my stomach problems. And I gotta say that my stomach was never as bad as now. I am in both psychological and physical agony. Last time I've felt that anxious right before university entrance exams which I knew I would fail. But then that feeling was only for a few hours before exam. Now I have the same feeling constantly, and I can't understand why, because I have nothing even relatively stressing in the future. I have studied for 5 hours daily, my progress is good and understanding is awesome. So by any means I'm doing great, all that I am supposed to do. Then why the fuck I feel so terrible? I feel like my life is ruined and I've lost everything, even though I know that none of it js actually true. And that feeling never goes away, I'm tearing inside both figuratively and literally. My guess is that the news about my physical condition and all this pain slowly caught up with me and now hurting with their full power. And games, yeah, abstinence from games hurt me so badly. Like it was my way to socialize, vent out, show others my skill and value. And now I have none of this. I'm by my own, no matter what I do I get 0 response. I was grinding math this whole week, finished all algebra and got a perfect final exam score. But it felt so unrewarding, no one said "good job" to me. I could've just laid in bed and watched youtube and get to basically the same outcome. Like I know that knowing math is beneficial and would help me in the long run, but now this is so vague that it actually means nothing. 

And now I realize my mistake. I've been listening to Healthy Gamer for a few weeks and now I can surely say that all of this is wrong, quitting games cold turkey is wrong, Cam is wrong. This whole approach of "just" quitting games and "just" doing healthy things instead is so fucked up. You are just fighting a symptom instead of addressing the real issue behind it. People play games for 12 hours a day not because games are bad, but because something in their lives is fucked up. No wonder that the relapse rate on this forum is so high. It was always so obvious, but I've never thought about it properly. I've spent almost 3 years of my life depriving myself from the only thing that had meaning in my life. Have I found another healthy meaning? Nope. I've just spent 3 years torturing myself to the point that I'm hurt as never before. All of this was wrong. Listening to a man who blames every problem in life on one thing in order to just sell his shitty pdfs that tell you to touch grass was probably one of the worst decisions in my life. I am done, gonna start a game tonight. 

[Time to move on]

8 hours ago, Paul A. said:

I can't even begin to understand how you must be feeling right now. That's awful news, and it pains me to think about how terrible you must be feeling. Let us know if there's anything we can do

I appreciate your concern.

It’s alright now. That day I wanted to buy a vape and go back to gaming, but decided that games nor nicotine won’t solve my problems. I had a therapy session today, so I’m already working on my mental health. Probably my journals would be different from now on. I still crave playing Overwatch, but gaming is not a problem. In order to fix my life I have to change myself. I have to change my attitude towards myself.

[Time to move on]

Just got diagnosed with a syndrome that causes me so much pain. I have to take medication for the rest of my life, also I can't lift anything more than 5-10kg for the rest of my life. I have to check up once a year, if it get's worse I'd need to do a surgery, that would cause me even more pain with a possibility to make me disabled.

I think I'm having a mental breakdown. I've cried 5 times during the last hour. I wanna die

[Time to move on]

Day 142 without gaming. 

My doctor said that my problems with stomach ache and bad digestion could be not physiological, but rather psychological. And I see how it could be true. My problems started when I stopped gaming, and started preparing for school exams on May 2022. I've made some major decisions around that time, that I'll give up on university and will pursue self study. And I've felt quite uneasy since then. Because for my academical failures I have nothing to blame but myself. With that decision I've gained a great responsibility. And because I've stopped gaming I have no place to escape this tension. I used to escape into gaming for a major part of my life, and now it's gone. 

Another thing that made me felt uneasy is that I started craving gaming really hard after 100 days. And to be honest I don't understand why. I haven't changed anything in my life, so I have no clue what happened. I really need to look into this and investigate.

Yesterday when I was falling asleep I had severe anxiety, almost like a panic attack. And I don't understand why, because I had nothing scheduled on today. Maybe it's because I've got diagnosed with yet another physical problem that needs surgery, but I thought that I took it quite easy. But maybe all this physical pain, loneliness, upcoming surgery, upcoming appointment with therapist and severe gaming cravings has all blended into anxiety/panic attack. I don't know yet, but I'm trying to reflect on myself as much as possible to understand what's happening.

[Time to move on]

18 minutes ago, Wildermyth said:

Fortunately I sucked at the game so I knew my chances of getting anything higher than diamond was way out of the picture. Still, I remember how agitated I got when I dropped in rank and how eager I was to get back up again; it always resulted in me playing an excessive amount of matches into the late hours with zero enjoyment. 

Have you ever tried real sports? I know martial arts has ranking systems with belts and what not and it seems like it brings people together in a good way. You'll get a new perspective on personal development and there's so many more components that are healthy compared to competitive gaming.

I was going to the gym 3 times a week for the whole 2021. I’ve made some progress and my trainer suggested me to try competitive powerlifting tournament. I started preparing for it, and after 2 months my body just fell apart. I quit then, and now, after a year after this, I still have problems with veins and I’m in constant pain. So I guess sports, especially competitive is a big no no for me now. I get so obsessed with it that I would just destroy my body. 

[Markus's Journal]

Welcome back.

45 minutes ago, Markus said:

I just don't find gaming as fun anymore.

Can relate to that, this is a very nasty stage. Like you wanna game and have fun, but you’ve already set your mind to gaming=bad mentality. So you don’t enjoy gaming as much, it feels wrong, but you still do it. So you are in between two worlds: one is gaming, and one is your ideal life. And you can’t stick to either if them, just bouncing back and forth. 
 

I am not here to give you advice, in fact I don’t have any. Just want to say that you are not alone in this. 

[Time to move on]

6 minutes ago, Markus said:

Stay strong Max!
137 days is a HUGE accomplishment and you haven't reached it just by luck. You're strong and you can get over this.

During the hard times just focus on the present and try to encourage yourself. You can do this.

Thank you, I’m trying my best.

I know that it’s not just luck, it took me at least 2 years of attempts and failures to get to 137. My previous record was just 45.

I know that I should take it one day at a time, but damn it is hard. I used to game to numb the pain, and now I have the same instinct. I was already considering relapsing yesterday. Honestly it’s so hard to keep your head clear during all this shit, I know that this is right and that this is what I should do, but in the moment I just want to give up and get lost in brain fog.

[Time to move on]

Hello, my name is Max, today is day 137 without video games. I am certain to say that this is the hardest time in my life so far. I have 3 appointments at the hospital tomorrow, I am in physical pain, I am lonely and depressed, I am disappointed in life, I crave to play on a daily basis. I am studying math and it is unrewarding. I feel like an absolute failure and disappointment for everyone who knows me. I feel like most people my age are way further in life. I think that my body is unattractive and it seems like I can’t do anything about it (eating 3k calories and drinking gainer for a year got me like 2 kg, so my weight was 58-59), I can’t grow muscles because I can’t exercise due to my physical condition (and even when I was I didn’t really grow anything). I have difficulties talking with people, especially with girls because I have 0 confidence. 

[Time to move on]

4 hours ago, Wildermyth said:

It's sometimes hard to distinguish exactly what makes a certain game more addicting than another. I believe that the genre is just one of many, many factors that can determine our interest in something. Overwatch for example has very tight mechanics, lots of playstyle variation and a potent reward system that keeps your motivation going. It's also easy to just pick up and play so there's not a huge investment that is asked of you.

I was a huge fan of Overwatch and played it for about 1,000 hours but it helped when they launched the half-assed "sequel" and got so many things wrong. It made me lose interest in the franchise quite fast.

I started playing Overwatch when I was 13. I was placed in gold, then dropped to silver for a year. I was very obsessed with climbing the ladder. By the time I turned 16 I’ve reached top 500 with 4200 peak sr. I’ve started playing scrims and tournaments with a team. The following years Overwatch was the only interest in my life. I saw studying, socializing and other activities as a chores and obstacles on my way of playing. My dopamine system was so fucked, that winning in Overwatch and climbing the rank was the only thing that gave me pleasure. I could neglect sleep, hunger, exhaustion just to continue playing. I just couldn’t stop. I would say “one more game” for hours. In real live I was (am) an absolute failure, so in order to numb my insecurities I would take someone else’s low rank account (silver, gold) and get it to GM in a few days. I liked dominating, playing with low skill players who can’t compete with me. Getting praised for being good. Overwatch brought the worst out of me. I knew that what I was doing is wrong, but it felt so good that I just couldn’t stop.

 

You are absolutely right about the sequel, I’ve uninstalled the game on the second day of the release and I’m sober since then. I get cravings every day and they are strong, but the game is so fucked up at this point that it even keeps an addict like me to pass by. I have 0 interest in other games, my only obsession is Overwatch, but it’s so bad that I would rather suffer in real life. 

[Time to move on]

5 hours ago, Lobares2 said:

Mate I think you need a purpose in your life again. I remember the posts when you were occupied with work back ago. They were full of positive energy ‘no time to post here or to think about games I am so busy’ and stuff. You might try to get a job or something on a regular base so you can earn money and have a schedule once again. This will motivate you and keep you away from negative thoughts. Its really, really tough to stay on track if you dont have alternativea to gaming. As you said - no gaming only leads to nothing. I am kinda suprised you act like you understood this for the first time although this is so frequent here in thw journals of others. Everyone is experiencing this after stopping to game. Its one part of the change, its necessary but not sufficient. The next step is to chase your goals which are - well tough to follow in your case, since you do it all on your own. A schedule would help but that might be not possible since you cant go back to school again ad I remember. So you might do something instead ubtil you can stud again to get into university. Because apparently this route doesnt work. 

 

Just to put it in perspective: I quitted games etc for like 2-3 years and I made 0 progress in university anyway. I started to making progress after that time. So your 120 days of not gaming without achieving something else is nothing special. so dont be so harsh on yourself. Like I said quitting was definitely necessary. 

I do work on that job currently. I’ve been given a tough project with very strict deadlines, so I basically work day and night. Yesterday I finished working at 5 AM. I have goals, a have a purpose. 
 

I think you’ve missed the point of my post, I am depressed and frustrated because my health gets worse and worse for over a year despite all my commitments. I am in constant physical pain, and I can’t do anything about it. I live in a fear that yet another part of my body will fail and make the situation even worse. So all of my anger and despair caused me to write my previous post.

So it has nothing to do with work, studying, university etc.

[Time to move on]

On 1/30/2023 at 1:20 AM, Max said:

I'm not putting any efforts in not playing games anymore.

I was wrong. This week has been full of strong cravings.

My physical condition is just horrible, I'm treating gastritis for over 9 months and it's not getting better. In fact it got worse. Shit ton of medication, limitations, doctor appointments, money spent and I get fucking nothing in return. My legs and testicles ache all the time, I had a surgery and since then it's aching more and more FUCKING INCREDIBLE. Also I had a hemorrhoids removal surgery, and now I have to wipe my ass with fucking wet tissues until I die. Oh, and yet, it still hurts. After my laser eye surgery my eyes are always fucking dry. Last year was full of physical pain for me, but I endured all that. BUT IT'S JUST KEEPS GETTING WORSE. I am fucking done, I can't do this anymore. Today is day 128 without games. Any positive changes since I quit??? NONE. I feel empty, lonely and depressed as never before. For all the hard work I put in all I get is just a spit in the face. I just took a 3 hour walk, walked 8 kilometers. All I felt was pain from my legs and loneliness. Why did I quit? To get a better taste of this shitty life? I wish I kept playing games, quitting is absolutely fucking useless. If your life is shit, quitting games won't do anything. What a fucking waste. I'm so tired pretending like gaming is an issue. I AM the issue. No matter what I do I just suck. Going to the gym was the only serious commitment in my life, that ended up with completely ruining my health after a year. And I was with a fucking trainer, we were very careful with weights. When my brother (same age) came to the gym for the first time, he benched the same fucking weight as me after a year of 3 day a week training. I'm fucking done with this shit. Gaming gave me an instant gratification, but real life gives me only punishment for doing what was supposed to be right. What a fucking joke. I hope that my body will completely rot soon enough

[Lobares Journal]

5 hours ago, Lobares2 said:

Oh yea, and I am going to reinstall my OS now. I wont use my backup, instead I will only use my browser for my tasks, so basically every page will be blocked except sites to study with/other work I need to do for RL.

You can install linux. Something like Ubuntu is easy to install. And the whole environment is different so most likely you won't have old habits kicking. Linux has a learning curve, but if you use it as a bootloader for a web browser, you don't need to know anything.

[Lobares Journal]

On 1/28/2023 at 5:21 PM, Pochatok said:

Disclaimer: all of those books are faaar too long, are written by sexist/fatphobic/classist/... men, so I advise to read with caution as not to get some of their own inner bullshit get to you

As a man I feel offended. Please don't be so hateful and sexist.

[Time to move on]

On 2/6/2023 at 8:09 AM, Lobares2 said:

Do you have any kind of schedules you are following lately? Like any appointments on a daily basis? I think thats really important to start aocializing again, especially if you dont visit school/dont work. Its hard to meet people while everyone is having a standard life and you are not. It was the same for me until I changed some things and met new people.

What happend with your plan of working out a long-time studying plan? I thought that was a great idea tbh!

Thank you for your support. I haven't got a plan yet, because I've been working full time. My brother asked me to help him finish his project at work (he is the owner), so I'm working full time on software and tests. I think I'll finish it in a week and then I'll finally make a decent studying plan.

[Time to move on]

I am sick of the internet. It gives me a feeling that I’m socializing with people, but all of this is just fake and in reality I’m nothing. I’m done.

[Time to move on]

18 hours ago, GrainSiloEnthusiast said:

As someone who also doesn't completely agree with the whole 12 step thing but still attends meetings... Yeah what I do is just reinterpret everything (even if it's a stretch lol) into something that makes sense to me.

Like powerlessness? For me I interpret that as "I can't change the fact (I'm powerless over) that I'm already an addict, therefore I am unlikely to be able to return to the things I was addicted to without ruining my life." Basically, there are things in life I can't control, and myself around gaming (and drugs and alcohol etc...) Is one of them! But I do have the power to change. I believe in a "higher power" of sorts but not a sky daddy kind, and I feel like the most it can do is point me in the right direction. I have to do the work myself.

Yeah, I do something like that as well. I see Higher Power as chemicals in my brain, like dopamine, that got me hooked on instant gratification via gaming. I don't know about other groups, but mine Russian speaking group was very chill about it. They said that as long as it works for me they are happy. Just going to groups to speak out and hear others has been an amazing experience.

[Time to move on]

19 hours ago, Wildermyth said:

Yeah, it surprises me too how trivial gaming seems after a while. Like, you can really see how pointless much of it is and how shallow most of the experiences are. A film that’s barely two hours can have more impact on you than a 60 hour JRPG. And so can a 3 minute song for that matter and neither makes you obsess over them to the point where you can’t think straight anymore.

To be honest I've never had problems with playing games other than Overwatch. It took me over a year to finish The Witcher 3 (about 100 hours playtime) because I got bored after an few hours and I had no desire to play it daily. So yeah, playing an RPG is the same as watching a film for me: feels kinda cool, but not addictive. But when it comes to Overwatch. So everyone is different I guess. But I'm still a little bit scared to play other games because I might slip back into playing Overwatch.

[Time to move on]

Day 116 (why do I keep counting days?..)

Well I don't know, I always used my journal mainly to describe my struggles with quitting, but now I don't have any. I don't wanna play anything, completely uninterested. I was with some acquaintances of mine while they there playing PS4 and I was so bored I rarely even looked at the screen. Not a single thought of playing. I'm not putting any efforts in not playing games anymore. So I have to improve other aspects of my life. I will be back home tomorrow (I was in other city for 4 days) and I will try to do something I've never done before: write an actual detailed plan of my studying for a long period of time (at least 6 months). Then the sake of this journal will be tracking my progress.

[Time to move on]

Day 104. 
 

Hey everyone, I’m over 100 days without gaming. Still staying strong with no porn or youtube. I think that my dopamine levels start to lower, I experience less gaming cravings as well. I feel tempted to study and read books. Now I’m ill for about ten days already, staying at home alone all this time, which makes my abstinence much more difficult. But I managed to stay clean. My cold is almost gone too, I think I will fully recover in 2 days. 
 

Mentally I’m much better than ever before, brain fog is gone and I can finally think clearly. Yesterday I had a conversation where I reevaluated my vision about my past. For the past 4 or 5 years I’ve been thinking that quitting school and studying on my own has ruined my life and I lived with constant regret of my decision. I don’t deny that it had a negative impact on certain areas of my life, like lack of social contact. But I can see now that there were some good sides too, like my ability to learn complicated concepts on my own. These 5 years of self study gave me a good opportunity to think on my own and experience some aspects of life that other kids my age didn’t. It was a unique experience that made me who I am now. If I could turn back time of course I would do things differently, but I don’t have this constant regret mindset anymore. I think I’m finally ready to really move forward in life, meet new people, learn new things, create something. I no longer see myself as just a failure, I accepted my mistakes and ready to move forward.

 

P.S. Anonymous computer video gaming addicts groups really help!