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BooksandTrees

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54 minutes ago, TwoSidedLife said:

This is just my personal experience from a few years ago (As a woman), abstaining made me very motivated to approach and talk to new ppl. I didnt think twice about approaching someone, it was either have eye candy or nothing at all. I remember meeting and keeping a friendship w someone really attractive for a year. I approached them in the first 5 mins of seeing them. Doing that also helped distract from the feeling for a long time. I think this is one of the main purposes of doing nofap too. It makes you want to persue interactions wih others. I made mistakes on the way and learnt. If I kept on w nofap, no doubt I wouldve been in a relationship w them. I still regret it and I made the mistake of turning them down for no reason (I just blame the drugs lol).

 

You'll manage and you'll get by. Get out there and meet some ppl!

Thank you. That's interesting and I don't mean to sound like a strange person but I've actually never heard of a woman doing nofap. I'm really supportive of the movement. I just think porn has kept me from naturally going out and dating. I'm a social butterfly and have no issues meeting or talking to people, but when it came to dating I'd lose the natural energy to continue to flirt and I just awkwardly kept the conversation going because my brain felt that I really only needed porn.

I also think the energy you get when you naturally want to talk to a cute person or work on a job or hobby gets diluted when you watch porn. You don't want to work hard for anything or do anything. If I had a major goal I'd stop brainstorming and watch porn and then get tired and depressed because porn was making me disappointed in myself. It lead to loneliness and unfulfilling days. 

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I have no idea how long I stopped. I wasn't tracking it or aware of NoFap at the time. I realised it was a problem when I was in a relationship. About 2 years after the breakup, I made the choice to stop. Was around the same time I quit multiplayer games (Also didn't know abt StopGaming). I definitely went a good few months without it. I got to a point where I didn't think about it anymore (No more cravings) and I was more interested in dating. During those months was when school ended and everyone went to different schools afterwards. Thats where I met that attractive person and really want to date them. Basically from there I fell off the tracks and got more involved with drugs.

 

Went back to it cause of the drugs, haven't tried again since (I should tho, I realise now that NoFap made my life a lot better). Lost the person cause of the drugs and that made me relapse heavier into it. Kept gaming cause of the drugs too (Tho I was successful in abstaining from Multiplayer Games, I got addicted to Singleplayer instead).

 

I've pretty much quit and relapsed a lot of things over the years. Overall though with NoFap, I would just say don't think about the future. Just focus on the now. Lol, there's also a womens section on NoFap for women who're doing it. Idk how common it is with women, but it's a fact that most will never admit to it. We can be just as addicted however and we feel the same about it mentally and physically. It's a tricky discussion when it comes to 'how long' though.

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28 minutes ago, TwoSidedLife said:

I have no idea how long I stopped. I wasn't tracking it or aware of NoFap at the time. I realised it was a problem when I was in a relationship. About 2 years after the breakup, I made the choice to stop. Was around the same time I quit multiplayer games (Also didn't know abt StopGaming). I definitely went a good few months without it. I got to a point where I didn't think about it anymore (No more cravings) and I was more interested in dating. During those months was when school ended and everyone went to different schools afterwards. Thats where I met that attractive person and really want to date them. Basically from there I fell off the tracks and got more involved with drugs.

 

Went back to it cause of the drugs, haven't tried again since (I should tho, I realise now that NoFap made my life a lot better). Lost the person cause of the drugs and that made me relapse heavier into it. Kept gaming cause of the drugs too (Tho I was successful in abstaining from Multiplayer Games, I got addicted to Singleplayer instead).

 

I've pretty much quit and relapsed a lot of things over the years. Overall though with NoFap, I would just say don't think about the future. Just focus on the now. Lol, there's also a womens section on NoFap for women who're doing it. Idk how common it is with women, but it's a fact that most will never admit to it. We can be just as addicted however and we feel the same about it mentally and physically. It's a tricky discussion when it comes to 'how long' though.

That's interesting.  I never went to the nofap website on reddit or anything either.  I kind of just saw a YouTube video about "Your Brain on Porn". I'm sorry you went through that hardship. I've relapsed before as well.  I quit games and tried single player for a year and then got hooked again. I'm ready now though.  I worry I won't quit porn or the PMO because of my sex drive, but we'll see!

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What a frustrating weekend so far.  I got a minor stomach virus in the middle of Friday and had to leave work early.  Fortunately, I finished a difficult project before I left.  I slept 16 hours after clearing my system, then had to go to a party for my friend.  I felt sick the entire time I was there.  Light headed, very dehydrated, nauseous, and exhausted.  I left early and got home to sleep.  Most of the people there were garbage and I'm just tired of going to fucking stupid parties where you sit with a solo cup in your hand, try to mingle, but people still stick to their stupid fucking circles of 2 or 3 people and don't budge.  PATHETIC.  You're at a party.  Talk to everyone.  Fuck.  Just a waste of a weekend in my opinion and I also couldn't go to the gym.  I didn't write at all.  The only productive thing I did was laundry and finish the book I was reading.

I also failed and watched porn this morning.  I tried doing something else, but I stayed in bed and didn't make an effort to eat breakfast.  Staying in bed lead me to watching porn because I don't watch it anywhere else.  It stinks because the dopamine rush to watch the porn was so strong and the experience afterwards was so lackluster.  I just need to keep remembering this.  I remember how hard it was to quit gaming so I am just happy I made it 7 days without porn.  I feel pretty down right now about watching it.

Emotionally it has been kind of frustrating.  I just wrote 6 paragraphs about what I'm finding wrong with relationships, women I've been dating, women I've been meeting, and just how we're not clicking at all.  I can have great conversations, I can get people laughing, I can listen well, and I can deliver well.  I don't think relationships are worth having for me. I also just feel like if I post my thoughts people are going to misinterpret what I'm saying.  I'm not one of these moron video gamers who are women haters.  I view all humans equally, most of my friends in real life are women to like a 70-30% ratio, and my writing only reflects dating scenarios in which I've been frustrated in.  Both men and women date and get frustrated and are allowed to vent their frustrations.  Take it for what it is.

Everyone I meet turns out to be a superior let down one way or another.  I haven't met a woman in the dating world who challenges me to aspire more, who compliments my thinking, has chemistry with me in conversation past like 2 topics, is interesting enough for me to want to learn their hobbies, interests, and goals.  I think it would be nice for a relationship to have both members with personal and professional goals and for the two of them to be both interested and supportive of the goals.  It's romantic if they make sacrifices for me and makes me feel loving and special to make sacrifices for them to achieve their goals.  I want to be part of a dynamic team where you both support each other through the thick and thin and also go on adventures, laugh, and do other bull shit all other relationships do.

I know what I'm looking for is difficult.  Most of the women I see on dating apps are looking for one night stands or seeing if you're interested in them and then ghost you to boost their self esteem.  This is the same thing at bars.  You get a few numbers and they go nowhere fast.  I'm bored and tired of this crap.  I am tired of superficial bull shit.  I want to meet someone and if they're interested they make an effort and if they're not they just tell me right away.  I KNOW GUYS DO THIS TO GIRLS, TOO.  I AM EMPATHETIC TO BOTH SIDES.  DO NOT POST ABOUT HOW GUYS ALSO DO THIS TO GIRLS.  I FUCKING KNOW.  JUST RELATE WITH ME HERE IF YOU'VE ALSO FUCKING EXPERIENCED THIS.  I AM NOT ATTACKING A GENDER WITH THIS RANT.  I AM ATTACKING THE PROCESS AND HOW I AM TIRED OF THE PROCESS. THIS ALWAYS TENDS TO GET MISCONSTRUED BY SOMEONE WHO NEVER READS MY THREAD AND THEN POSTS ONCE AND LEAVES.  THANK YOU.

So it is just frustrating after a while.  It's not that I lack the humility to keep trying to find a diamond in the rough.  It's just that I learn quickly with my experiences in life.  If things don't really work after a while, stop wasting your time.  You only live once and it's not worth it.  I don't enjoy going to bars and having the same conversations.  I am tired of dating apps and seeing the same shit on every profile and having the same conversations.  I read articles, blogs, and watch YouTube videos and hear how women hate seeing "Hey, what's up?" in the chats.  I try to learn and see if I can do something better.  So I do.  Meanwhile, I download Bumble - where the women message you first - and have the woman say "Hey, what's up?". LOL.  Again, I think people are just having a hard time with dating apps since I'm guessing 70% of matches actually lead to a conversation and 90% of those don't get past the first few sentences.  There's a lot of pressure there.  Again, I hate the process.  It seems both men and women are struggling here.

Anyways, this is a sensitive subject for me and other people I'm assuming.  If you misunderstand the context of what I'm writing as an attack on gender vs an attack on dating, then I'm not going to respond to you since I'm complaining about modern dating and its format.  I'm not complaining about women, as I posted above.  There always seems to be someone who doesn't get it.  I'm posting in here for the 5 or 6 people who have been supporting me since last July.  Thanks.

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Hey BooksAndTrees,

I just read the last 3 pages on your journal, I sympathize with you because of how hard fighting all these addictions can be.  I'm also fighting against gaming and pmo, as well, and have been fighting against pmo for the better part of 8 years.  I've only recently starting having some success again.

Anyways, if I could give you a few little bits of advice, it would be to not beat yourself up after a relapse.  I used to get so down and depressed when I relapsed.  I was miserable and hated myself and that didn't help anything in my situation.  It's obviously easier said than done, but we are finite and imperfect and mistakes inevitably will happen for our entire lives.  And when it comes to the extremely addictive mediums that we've all been exposed to as children and young adults, i can be extremely difficult to find success and can often take years to overcome.

Another small thing is to try different tactics to overcome these addictions, it has taken me years to come up with formulas that worked for me. Always try and analyze what you think caused you to fail so you can make the necessary changes to prevent that from happening in the future.

Either way, you've made it a long way, especially with quitting gaming, and I hope to get that far soon.  Keep up the good work!

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32 minutes ago, Average_Guy said:

Hey BooksAndTrees,

I just read the last 3 pages on your journal, I sympathize with you because of how hard fighting all these addictions can be.  I'm also fighting against gaming and pmo, as well, and have been fighting against pmo for the better part of 8 years.  I've only recently starting having some success again.

Anyways, if I could give you a few little bits of advice, it would be to not beat yourself up after a relapse.  I used to get so down and depressed when I relapsed.  I was miserable and hated myself and that didn't help anything in my situation.  It's obviously easier said than done, but we are finite and imperfect and mistakes inevitably will happen for our entire lives.  And when it comes to the extremely addictive mediums that we've all been exposed to as children and young adults, i can be extremely difficult to find success and can often take years to overcome.

Another small thing is to try different tactics to overcome these addictions, it has taken me years to come up with formulas that worked for me. Always try and analyze what you think caused you to fail so you can make the necessary changes to prevent that from happening in the future.

Either way, you've made it a long way, especially with quitting gaming, and I hope to get that far soon.  Keep up the good work!

Thank you!  I agree with you totally.  I'm trying not to get down on myself today.  I honestly think I was just aroused beyond belief lol.  I wasn't stressed or feeling pressure.  I've learned to combat the thoughts with stressors for now, but I'm not sure how to quell the natural urge one.  With every failure comes a new lesson to apply to future successes.  I'm gonna have to learn from this one.  I've also felt I've watched porn too much growing up.  Have you found it more difficult to quit games or porn?

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Okay, so I'm coming in the middle of everything, so I'm sorry if I'm a bit unphased with your story. But I agree with your vision on men and women asking for A+ grade and in fact are mostly C or D and don't want to get better ! And they want A+ grade for doing common things in the first place (sorry, I formulated in an other way, maybe I got this wrong). Maybe it's very pragmatic but I have only one advice : think what your ideal woman is and think where is the most probable way to meet her. My wife was maybe a grade C but with the will to become a Grade A+, and now she's a grade A. I wanted a woman with a very strong will to become virtuous, the first I found was the first I dated, and I married her ! I'm very happy with her now. 

For porn addiction, I can only give you a few advice based on experience, because it was easier for me BY FAR to quit porn and stop masturbating (I'm 12 years free of it now) than quitting video games :

- First of all, try to learn all the horrible thing which happens with it : how it breaks healthy behavior in a couple, how women are treated in porn. The more you know it's ugly, the more it will disgust you.

- How would you feel if it was your sister or daughter or mother in the video ? Try to think about the feeling of the woman you see, because you will make an intellectual and moral effort, and the more your reason stays awake, the more it's easier to struggle against.

- Put a background motivating picture on your pc/laptop or a real picture just next to it. I know some christian friends put an image of the Virgin Mary with scotch on the corner of the screen, it was super efficient to their saying. Think about which one works for you (someone from your family ? Someone inspiring ?).

- Hate it, hate it, hate it. That's what worked the most for me, with praying. I hated masturbation so much after realizing it could wreck my future couple, I relapsed 1 time and then I struggled like a maniac for 3 month (not able to sleep because I was used to do it to sleep).

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100% Porn was harder for me.  It also took me a while to figure out that gaming, even though there was nothing sexual about what I was playing, made me so much more susceptible to Pmo.  And once I took gaming out of my life, I was able to manage my 'natural' urges with so much more ease.  Addictions feed off of other addictions, so once I was able to realize this and stop all my other bad addictions, I finally was able to control Pmo urges.  It's like you have to daily condition your brain by quitting the smaller stuff in order to overcome the bigger stuff.  

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6 hours ago, Mouxine said:

Okay, so I'm coming in the middle of everything, so I'm sorry if I'm a bit unphased with your story. But I agree with your vision on men and women asking for A+ grade and in fact are mostly C or D and don't want to get better ! And they want A+ grade for doing common things in the first place (sorry, I formulated in an other way, maybe I got this wrong). Maybe it's very pragmatic but I have only one advice : think what your ideal woman is and think where is the most probable way to meet her. My wife was maybe a grade C but with the will to become a Grade A+, and now she's a grade A. I wanted a woman with a very strong will to become virtuous, the first I found was the first I dated, and I married her ! I'm very happy with her now. 

For porn addiction, I can only give you a few advice based on experience, because it was easier for me BY FAR to quit porn and stop masturbating (I'm 12 years free of it now) than quitting video games :

- First of all, try to learn all the horrible thing which happens with it : how it breaks healthy behavior in a couple, how women are treated in porn. The more you know it's ugly, the more it will disgust you.

- How would you feel if it was your sister or daughter or mother in the video ? Try to think about the feeling of the woman you see, because you will make an intellectual and moral effort, and the more your reason stays awake, the more it's easier to struggle against.

- Put a background motivating picture on your pc/laptop or a real picture just next to it. I know some christian friends put an image of the Virgin Mary with scotch on the corner of the screen, it was super efficient to their saying. Think about which one works for you (someone from your family ? Someone inspiring ?).

- Hate it, hate it, hate it. That's what worked the most for me, with praying. I hated masturbation so much after realizing it could wreck my future couple, I relapsed 1 time and then I struggled like a maniac for 3 month (not able to sleep because I was used to do it to sleep).

Thanks for your story. I find it interesting that you hated porn and masturbation.  I have started to hate gaming, gamers, and the gaming community and that has helped me never crave games.  I think it's such a toxic environment full of ignorant people.  I just don't want to use anger and hate to fix all of my problems.  But maybe if I refocus that energy I could turn it into a non-anger backed method of quitting porn.

I'm starting to get disgusted with my reasons for watching porn and why I'm searching and what I'm craving.  It's just humiliating to me and I am ready to move on.  I felt terrible after watching today.  Just terrible.  

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I totally understand your frustration about dating. A few years ago when I was single, I had exactly the same problem. 

What I am saying is that there are plenty of single women out there who are just like you and who want the same thing for a relationship, and who keep failing because of this modern world.

I guess the real problem is how to meet them and how to really get to know them.

Dating apps and bars might not be the best places to find a soul mate. Hobby clubs might be better. And friends' friends, colleagues' friends, etc. 

Well, I met my husband in an mmorpg so that's not helpful information. (It's a rare case. And the fact that we ended up with each other has little to do with that game.) I guess love can happen anywhere after all. 

You can keep asking yourself about what your ideal partner looks like to decide what you should do on a date. e.g. if you want her to be supportive with your career decisions, you need to find out her opinions about career and money; if you want her to agree with you on your future kids' education, you need to learn more about her parents and her childhood. It might be painful and requires a lot of patience to find true love, but it will be worth the wait.

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19 hours ago, BooksandTrees said:

Thanks for your story. I find it interesting that you hated porn and masturbation.  I have started to hate gaming, gamers, and the gaming community and that has helped me never crave games.  I think it's such a toxic environment full of ignorant people.  I just don't want to use anger and hate to fix all of my problems.  But maybe if I refocus that energy I could turn it into a non-anger backed method of quitting porn.

I'm starting to get disgusted with my reasons for watching porn and why I'm searching and what I'm craving.  It's just humiliating to me and I am ready to move on.  I felt terrible after watching today.  Just terrible.  

Well, thanks to you ! You just made me realize I relapsed so often into gaming because I'm not angry enough with games. That is not very logical, because I always felt much compassion for gamers, and why would I if I didn't know gaming is so mediocre.

You are right also, anger and hate doesn't fix all, but when it comes to resist something bad, dangerous or evil, it gives a surge to help.

It's totally normal feeling bad after watching. However there was a wise saying in the Antiquity : "it's the one who enters a house of prostitution who should be ashamed, not the one who exits it". You keep your will to quit, so be proud of yourself also, getting up everytime is quite an achievement.

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7 hours ago, Silverlining said:

I totally understand your frustration about dating. A few years ago when I was single, I had exactly the same problem. 

What I am saying is that there are plenty of single women out there who are just like you and who want the same thing for a relationship, and who keep failing because of this modern world.

I guess the real problem is how to meet them and how to really get to know them.

Dating apps and bars might not be the best places to find a soul mate. Hobby clubs might be better. And friends' friends, colleagues' friends, etc. 

Well, I met my husband in an mmorpg so that's not helpful information. (It's a rare case. And the fact that we ended up with each other has little to do with that game.) I guess love can happen anywhere after all. 

You can keep asking yourself about what your ideal partner looks like to decide what you should do on a date. e.g. if you want her to be supportive with your career decisions, you need to find out her opinions about career and money; if you want her to agree with you on your future kids' education, you need to learn more about her parents and her childhood. It might be painful and requires a lot of patience to find true love, but it will be worth the wait.

I'm really starting to find out who I'm attracted to and it worries me.  I tend to be attracted to the dainty, bubbly, cute woman who uses her cuteness in a sexy way.  She might talk about herself, carries lots of energy, seems happy, just alluring altogether.  I worry that most of those people are fake and just want my attention and to use me.  I have dated women like this and they use me like crazy.  I don't know why I keep going back to this personality type.  It makes me feel incredible to support them.  It's like I just yearn to support them and satisfy them in all ways possible. In my eyes it makes me feel romantic.  Maybe I am blind to being used and just realizing it now?

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5 hours ago, Mouxine said:

Well, thanks to you ! You just made me realize I relapsed so often into gaming because I'm not angry enough with games. That is not very logical, because I always felt much compassion for gamers, and why would I if I didn't know gaming is so mediocre.

You are right also, anger and hate doesn't fix all, but when it comes to resist something bad, dangerous or evil, it gives a surge to help.

It's totally normal feeling bad after watching. However there was a wise saying in the Antiquity : "it's the one who enters a house of prostitution who should be ashamed, not the one who exits it". You keep your will to quit, so be proud of yourself also, getting up everytime is quite an achievement.

Maybe instead of hatred we use the terminology of fortification.  We recognize something as detrimental to our well being and fortify our emotional walls to prevent us from letting those negative influences into our lives.  I like the anecdote you mentioned.  Emotional knowledge for the better of ourselves vs the hatred and pit of anger that can weigh us down.  I prefer to be safe than scornful.

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12 hours ago, BooksandTrees said:

I'm really starting to find out who I'm attracted to and it worries me.  I tend to be attracted to the dainty, bubbly, cute woman who uses her cuteness in a sexy way.  She might talk about herself, carries lots of energy, seems happy, just alluring altogether.  I worry that most of those people are fake and just want my attention and to use me.  I have dated women like this and they use me like crazy.  I don't know why I keep going back to this personality type.  It makes me feel incredible to support them.  It's like I just yearn to support them and satisfy them in all ways possible. In my eyes it makes me feel romantic.  Maybe I am blind to being used and just realizing it now?

Some of them might be fake but more likely that's just the way they are. Some people can use you intentionally, while some others can use you subconsciously. Some people can use you even if they like you, because they are immature, insecure or selfish. My point is, I think you need to focus on "you". Don't be afraid of "being used". As long as you take control, it's not a big deal. You can give whatever you want to give but at the same time, you need to make sure that you receive. "You" need to feel happy in a relationship. "You" need to feel supported and receive attention as well. If you don't feel that way, walk away and don't look back. Keep in mind that there are plenty of single women, and you only need to find one of them.

At the same time, I think it's a good idea to date different types of women. Maybe you will find out that you can be more comfortable with some other personality types. Maybe someone can become more charming once you know her very well -- some introverts are. Maybe they will help you understand yourself better. You are single. It's a privilege. Your next date is full of possibilities. It's exciting! Enjoy it!

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As a married guy for 5 years, I must just say this : a relationship gets better and better, and more enjoyable with time, unless you don't solve problems as they come. Stick with someone who will fight to keep her couple alive. Beauty and charm tends to fade with time and it's deceitful, if there no true love behind, it's hell on earth starting...

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Creating a dating profile turned out to be a very bad thing for me for a few reasons.  One reason is that I am conflicted with what I want.  I spent the past decade just watching porn.  It made me only want women as regular friends that I'd hang out with like any other guy, or to watch porn.  I'm disappointed with that because it makes me feel like a pig.  I didn't treat women poorly or try to get them to sleep with me obviously.  I'd treat any woman I interacted with as a respected friend or member of society that I'd do with anyone.  Some of my best friends are women now. I'm just disappointed about times I'd just search the porn websites top videos feeds to see what I'd be interested in and just watch those videos.

I bring this up because I have clearly not focused on what i'd want from a relationship.  I don't even understand what a relationship is to be honest with you.  I haven't been in one since 2010 and it was a disaster.  I'm not sure what kind of character traits I'm searching for in a woman or what personality features really make me happy.  I'm not really sure what I bring to the table either.  I don't understand the little things in relationships that would make me or her happy that others know about and experience.  The only way I'll know that is through more experience.

The next reason dating apps were bad was because it reminded me of searching for porn.  You open the browser on the phone and just see hundreds of women.  It's very similar to opening a porn browser and seeing hundreds of women.  After only 6 days of not watching porn my mind was not ready to view women on an app.  Some of these profiles had girls in bikinis or questionable poses.  That's their right, obviously, don't misconstrue what I'm saying here.  I'm just saying that these are triggers for porn addicts.  It's like trying to quit eating sugar and sitting in a bakery.

Most people start their porn addictions off by seeing a swimsuit catalog as a child.  That progresses to softcore porn or watching R rated movies just for the brief nudity scene.  Then that progresses to finding the late night HBO/Cinemax specials.  That turns into finding websites or going OnDemand.  That goes to pure websites and stays there.

I need to be able to control these triggers or if controlling does not work, just acknowledge the trigger is there, take a deep breath, and remove those thoughts from the situation.  It's just a picture.  I don't need to react to it.  This is my life and my choice.

Lastly, the online dating app was a bad thing for me because I generally hate how cookie cutter most profiles are.  Most of what people say on their profiles are similar.  Most pictures are similar situations like a famous landmark in my city, the group shot with friends, the dog picture, etc.  The comments in their bios "I'm just here for your dog."  "I'm a coffee enthusiast" "If you can't handle me at my worst, then you don't deserve me at my best" "Friday nights I'm either watching Netflix with a good glass of wine or out with my friends" etc.  

I know guys say dumb quotes as well.  I am not gay so I don't see guy's profiles.  I'm just speaking about the common things I see which make people so mundane and less unique or genuine.

Anyhow, I'm a day free of porn and I think this past week was terrible for me.  I really fell apart this weekend emotionally and mentally.  I watched a lot of porn and just couldn't focus at all.  I couldn't work on hobbies.  I just laid in bed doing nothing, getting angry, then just doing nothing.  I literally did nothing productive this weekend.  I watched a hockey game, was mad about a few things at home, was very mad at myself, couldn't focus, couldn't write, and didn't cook.  I ate junk food, watched porn, watched youtube videos, and read boring articles.

It happens though.  I didn't play games either.  I also helped some people on the discord for a few hours with questions they had about quitting games.  I had two people say I should be a therapist.  I don't think I'd be a good therapist because I'd get pissed off at people for failing and not listening I think.  I would get angry because I get angry at myself for failing.  I'm not at peace with myself enough to be a truly helpful person yet.  But I am trying.

Thanks for reading this long post.

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@BooksandTrees I feel like I say this every time to someone who relapses, and I need to work on it myself too.  But, don't beat yourself up.  Failing is part of the learning process and for me it has taken hundreds if not thousands of failures for me to make progress with pmo and other things in my life (and I still keep failing).  I've been there many times, and it sucks, but stand back up and keep moving forward again.  Also, try and exercise, that usually rejuvenates my mind, body, and soul in a way.

What has helped me a decent amount is that every time I relapse, I try and go through my thought process and all the actions that were taken that lead me to ultimately relapse, then I try to rule out or fix those weaknesses in a way that I won't come across them as much or anymore.  

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