Shakala

If you didn’t send me a PM I would never have seen the answer. So this was probably for the best. “(and you do miss that point in your response)” No I don’t, I have written expensively on this. I have read the scientific studies (of course not in whole detail) referenced in the article you sent. Which was itself expressed in my sentence: “Example from your article: "A number of peer-reviewed studies have found a link between pornography consumption and mental health outcomes like depression" at "depression" there is a quoted article which is this one: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5387769/“ When referencing to articles in the scientific field it can itself reference to studies, because those studies are published on scientific reviews (which is where the peer-reviewed studies name come from for that matter). I was not clear because it was obvious tobme, but you should’ve probably visited the link to get an idea. I will not answer to the rest here, but I will gladly say that I am happy you got to self reflect and admit where your knowledge was limited (as much as mine, don’t take it the wrong way). This was not expected and so my last sentences were wrong in that regard.

That was maybe not your intention but your answer seemed more like you were ignoring the points. But as you didn't take the time to say you agree/have nothing to say, it comes off as straight off erasing every other thing I said. I also don't get your point. I quoted your entire text, and if you refer to my first post, I hope you don't expect me to answer to every ony of your posts. As well, this was before we were actually engaging in a focused discussion over a topic. The context is a bit different and I hope you can see that disctinction. "just like you do in this reply above." also seems like a pesky and childish way of answering "it's you not me". I'm not taking that bait. Please just refrain from these kinds of sentences if you want to have a serious, civil discussion. The intention might not be negative, but it's not helping. (it is false as well but do I really need to explain...) Conventional industrial porn. Same argument over and over. I already responded to it in the original post. Please, reread. You have to understand also the main audience of porn, the context in which it has been done, etc... Quite tired to have to explain basic stuff. Woah ok... this is gonna be long. There's a lot of research on anything and I could find you dozens of scientific studies and published articles that have reverse conclusions or present counterarguments: https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/28989197/ https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/full/10.1080/23268743.2013.863654?needAccess=true Or maybe an even better one which actually explore the fact that this is just a mixed bag. Anyone that would say that "science says porn is bad" doesn't understand what science is about. And yes, I think you don't understand. To me it seems you take science as a form of rationalization of your decisions. You hold a view, you're going to search studies that will go in that sense and discard the rest. Worse, you read an article that quotes studies and grossly misrepresents them. Meaning, you are just linking this article to prove you are right and "the science is on your side" while... well it is not. Example from your article: "A number of peer-reviewed studies have found a link between pornography consumption and mental health outcomes like depression" at "depression" there is a quoted article which is this one: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5387769/ When reading the article, we can see that no, this is not what the article means AT ALL. You can already just know it by the title of it "Examining Correlates of Problematic Internet Pornography Use Among University Students". The key word is "Problematic". Now if you go read even just the Summary of it here is the first sentence: "Our results show that daily IP use has no direct correlation with poor psychosocial functioning.". So how do we go from "porn consumption = depression" to daily "porn consumption has no direct correlation to poor psychosocial functioning"? The whole summary says that there are risks, yes, but hey we don't really know. This is the big problem when you don't read the source. Internet articles quoting studies are made by brainrot journalists that just want you to click for their Pay per View. I don't blame them but the industry. It's hard to make a living as a journalist doing honest work nowadays. People just want trash easy content. As well, funny enough that this study is there because it supports the point of view I have said earlier in this discussion: "This suggests that identifying oneself as an IP addict may be what causes distress and poor psychosocial functioning, not the IP itself". This is one of the basic ideas I was presenting on my post. And it's very funny that you tried to counter argument my post with an authoritative article that redirects to my very own first argument. Don't you see the irony and the intellectual dishonesty? So yeah, you take science as the words that come out an article which quotes science. This is not how it works. Science itself is neutral. As well, scientists deal with limited tools and knowledge. You also have to understand this is not hard sciences, and studies are highly skewed by bias of researchers and methodology bias. Which is why usually in the summaries you have these half-assed sentences being "eh, actually we researched there but we don't know". And usually the studies that present a very clear conclusion... get very suspect when you get into who funded the study or who are the people behind it. This is a real problem in every soft science study (and to a lesser extent in hard sciences). Results are also highly influenced by cultural impediments. In conclusion... you have no idea, I have no idea, nobody has any real idea. We have some leads and... that's all. Having an opinion is completely fine, especially on these topics. And you won't find science that will make you right. So please, stop with that. This is not serious. You attacked on the seriousness of my arguments, this is only fair that I show you how unserious you actually are about yours. Oh yeah, before you say "ye but it doesn't answer that porn industry is inherently harmful". Well your article doesn't provide any proofs of that either. You didn't even read it yourself. That's really disappointing. The section "Porn contributes to an unhealthy understanding of masculinity." doesn't cite any scientific source (weird uh?) so I guess we're back to square one in Opinion Land. And if you were talking about the first part of it... well, go there, and check the "sources". These are just mostly links to their own site... or misrepresented studies again... what a joke. As for "problematic consumer". Well I already answered, so please read again. If you hold these views on porn, which is very diverse and which I know a lot of women also like, well there is probably a big chance you hold these views in every sex related context. Judging by your past posts as well, it doesn't seem like you're socially comfortable or even particularly comfortable in life overall. Which does strengthen the case of you being sex ashamed. I explained this already in my original post and you're still not reading. It seems that these own views you have on the nature of porn are actually one of the things holding you back in life. As said earlier, this is not that big of a deal if you're not actually addicted to it. But you don't read so there's that. "I will answer to your comment only if they are based on factual evidence and research". You are putting double standards there and being in denial of your own biases. Your "factual evidence" is itself very thin and you're expecting me to put even more effort than I do already to find the most obscure and biased evidence there is. As for that last paragraph first sentence... "you can disagree! but that does not mean you are right." Quit the attitude. You are not right either (because that's what implies this part of the message). I don't care about that, I sent a message there to engage in a discussion, you turned this into a fight of who is right. Read it again, there was no animosity or saying "you're wrong!", I was only showing my opinion and own experience with that topic. If that is how you relate to anyone that's just trying to bring their own opinion, it is clear now why you're having problems with your relationships. Now I am tired of this discussion and making efforts. As a final note, I will say very truthfully: You don't have the depth and intelligence required to get what I mean. It is especially frustrating when you show such a misplaced passive-aggressive condescending attitude afterwards. Don't bother about answering. I am deactivating every notification, am very busy, and won't lose the time anymore on someone who is clearly not ready to reflect. I hope you take this for what it's worth.

Very selective reading and so selective answer... I won’t answer if you don’t take the effort to actually read what I said. Just wanted to put this here so nobody gets the wrong idea about what I said. If someone wants to know, let them read the whole message. I dont like my opinion being misrepresented. Literally adressed your points about it being only about men’s pleasure in my original post. And patriarchy has nothing to do with it, please we are past that argument now. As well, you can be sex ashamed and love it. Actually that’s usually what happens. Osho said smth along the lines “When I talk to a monk all he talks about is sex, when i talk to a prositute all she talks about is God”

Yeah, the thing is that becoming a problematic porn user is way harder than becoming a problematic gamer. It's very common to see someone play for hours. Games are made to hook you on for hours. But it's rare to see someone watch porn for hours. Videos are made to make you excited quickly and jizz fast. There is a strong component of time, and energy spent in addictive behaviors. That's why I don't think it's that big of a problem than a lot of online communities make it to be. Because most people who try NoFap by example, just masturbate for 20 minutes a day at most. That's far from a problematic/addictive behaviour. It's normal and natural to masturbate, animals also do it. It actually decreases the risk of prostate cancer in humans... so you better wank it off from time to time! I understand the problem of watching porn though, and that porn might decrease the quality of your sexual relationships by setting unrealistic expectations of pleasure achieved/hardcore fantasies. But really, there are actions you can do besides stopping to watch porn to address this issue. Because this problem is more psychological than anything. If you are scared when you watch a scary movie, yes, you can stop watching scary movies altogether. But you can also rationalize and cut yourself from what you are watching to not be scared of them. Why not do the same with porn? Thinking "this is not real, this is just a fantasy". And be conscious that you don't have to act on fantasies. You can just let them in the "entertainment cubicle" that is porn. Wouldn't that be a more efficient use of time and mental resources? As well as letting you get some pleasure from time to time?

I don't think porn is a cause, but a consequence of a less active lifestyle. I've been using porn for years as some sort of escapism. Sometimes multiple times a day. But I've never been addicted like these guys who watch hours of porn PER DAY and have terabytes of libraries on their HDD. This is what you should be worried of. Not the usual testosterone kick that comes and makes you horny. Because this, is just some sort of natural body response. On the topic of viewing women as objects, I don't also think porn makes you this way unless you really are a problematic consumer. This sounds a bit like feminist propaganda and trying to be more attractive to young women that also hold these views. And listen, on this topic, women mostly don't understand because they don't have testosterone like we do. No resent, it's just the way it is. Funnily enough, there are studies out there showing that male to female trans experience a huge decrease in libido when taking hormone therapy. Reverse is also true for female to male. This tends to show that our hormones really have such a big role in these needs. It's not all, nevertheless, it's a big part of it. You shouldn't be ashamed of what signals your body gives to you. The problem here might be more inexperience. I remember before having my girlfriend how insecure I was around women. I've dabbled with the idea that porn was the problem, but in reality it was just me not having a girlfriend when I was younger that made me feel so insecure around them. Now that I know people I like can want me, can desire me, can love me back, and that also they can't if they don't and that it's okay because there is plenty of "fish" anyway, I can speak to girls so easily. I don't see them as "just bodies", and I make most women comfortable because, well I'm comfortable having or not having a sexual relationship with them. The ambiguity doesn't bother me anymore. In fact, I've never been so successful with women now... Also, the porn industry is so large, you can't really make that big of a generalization. If you watch "amateur"/self-made models, which is basically most of what you would find today if you're consuming free porn anyway, then there is not really any abuse, mostly. You have the OnlyFans pimp thing nowadays, but it's mostly just financial arrangements. For studios, this is different, but this is also a different business model and you would have to pay, anyway. Most girls don't do more than 3 videos anyway because the industry disgusts them. The ones who stay are conscious of everything, even the drugs and in a way like this lifestyle. In the end, sexualizing others is not a big deal as well. What I mean is, we have bodies; we find some features attractive in some bodies. That's ok. There is nothing wrong with that. Where it's wrong is if you allow yourself to touch these bodies without consent/be creepy. It just seems to me you're very sex ashamed. The problem is that denying your libido won't make you more powerful, more pure, more of a good person. Engaging with it fully won't also. Aim is not to become a sex maniac. But to have a healthy relationship with it. Not be disgusted by it, not be obsessed with it. Just accept it's a part of life and human relationships and that it's not actually a big deal. I don't say you should watch porn, because I consider it as a waste of time anyways, and have better to do with my time most of the time. But unless you really watch hours every day, I wouldn't work actively on this as a problem worth solving. Priorities.

You know what they say in Alcoholics Anonymous? Focus on not playing today. Stay sober, focus on what you can in life, which is what is right in front of your eyes. I think you're on the right path. Someday, shit might hit the fan, and you might want to remember why you didn't want to play in the first place.

Hey man, I've relapsed a few times. Can't say I won't this time but I'm pretty confident because the reasons that pushed me to stop are stronger than ever this time. So maybe you could dig onto these first. What made you stop in the first place? Why did you want to stop 2 months ago? Reminding this yourself all the time is so important. By example, one of my reasons is I didn't feel I had the time for anything than just work, and I hated this feeling of being in a "Work, Sleep, Repeat". I usually played for hours, so it became my main activity after work. Also, time passed so fast when playing that now every other activity felt so slow in comparison. These 2 things made me immensely frustrated of how little time I had on my hands. Not saying this is your reason. If it is, that's great. But my point is, you have to find something that makes you really reluctant to play. In the case of an ARPG, I don't know. What game are we talking about? PoE? Diablo? V Rising? In any way, these games are great but what's the end goal of them? In the end you're mostly just optimising your characters for marginal gains. There are other reasons to play though: - If you are trying to compete with the best on the servers, then you're in for 18 hours a day, 7 days a week, during the whole league/season... Or you will just be a wannabe. Try to imagine the people who are the best on a server... What are their life like? What do they look like? What do they even smell like? Do you want to be these people? - If you are just trying to use OP builds, then what's the point? What's the point of feeling OP? You don't feel OP in real life so you need a game to make you feel this way? (this is not an attack, this was my feeling playing competitive FPS and destroying lobbies, probably filled with kids/nolifers...) Are you really missing out on playing the best builds of this season? Unless you played every season on the game, you probably already missed thousands of builds anyways... - If you are just trying to theorycraft... What are you crafting for? It's virtual crafting, virtual creation of value. The value is only real in that realm, to people you might not even admire in real life? Who do you admire in real life, who would you want to be like? Would this person admire your craft? Again, there are multiple reasons you might be playing, but what are yours? What are your deep reasons for playing this game, and are these reasons actually sufficient enough to justify playing that much? You might need to find these reasons and then put them to the test to your actual values in life. Will these reasons make you someone more valuable in your own eyes? We're in this together brother. I have a competitive FPS addiction and for me, it's the feeling of being better than anyone else that's so addictive. But then again... feeling better than whom? People who don't take showers? Kids that have nothing else to do? Mostly depressed people or people just playing for fun after work? What's so mighty about feeling better than these people then...

nah